HL Bannings - Community Thread

[ChristophO]

@MMD
I think it is the pricing of cards. Highlander has older players that have little time for stuff like weekly tournaments and Forums. And Fetchlands and Duals have become so expensive that people just do not buy into the format anymore as much. Even non blue Zendikar fetchlands are close to 30 Euros by now. 3c Mana base is ~500€ I guess (3 duals + 9 fetch). It is the same with Legacy right now: the format is great but has become insanely expensive so guys that stopp playing because of a busy life can not all be replaced by newbies.

[Dreamer]

For me it's not so much the price. For me, it's just the goodstuff. Average card power is rising so fast that actual engine/synergy decks (the type I enjoy playing the most) become harder and harder to build. At some point you just have to ask why are you not casting Karn or playing some relatively narrow, dull Emralolol/Griseltard deck. Or in control, why win with some cool interaction when retarded things like AEtherling exist.

You can see it in Tiggupiru's and Triack's Pattern builds - More Goyf, more Smiter. Less zany synergies, less combo kills.

I went to Legacy, and found it fun to Hoof people. I found it fun to cast Llanowar Elves, except that it's actually Dark Ritual and Ancestral Recall stapled into one card. The sort of thing that feels decidedly criminal but comes together from cards working together. It's just a thing that's bloody hard in this format.

And most things that could be done to help it (bringing back Survival/Pod/something) would just power up goodstuff in equal measure, probably more.

I do like the idea of a singleton format, but I think in the pressures of three-colour manabases being simply the best, more and more goodstuff seeing print, and deck sizes being huge, something has got to give.


EDIT: Also, Wasser, the only thing you're succeeding in by writing in German is making me think you're an ass who just wants to troll instead of communicate.

[LasH]

For me it's not so much the price. For me, it's just the goodstuff. Average card power is rising so fast that actual engine/synergy decks (the type I enjoy playing the most) become harder and harder to build. At some point you just have to ask why are you not casting Karn or playing some relatively narrow, dull Emralolol/Griseltard deck.

I got "frustrated" to the format bc of goodstuff decks too. The new mulligan rule is the best way to make this archetype worse. I started the thread about the mulligan to nerf this archetype. Maybe give the format another try right now.
The toolbox-goodstuff deck will suffer from the new mulligan as most, because u wont be able to shuffle your unneeded toolbox effects simply away. The greedy manabases wont work at all anymore. Goodstuff cards do usually have a very good manacost/effect. The format will be slower by the new mulligan which makes "fun/effect"-cards at higher cc slots much more playable.

[berlinballz]

I have changed my list. I have started doing test draws. everything i feared appears true. i find this change to the format that has grown lately in popularity completely unnecessary and uncalled for. anyone in the council better keep a damn close eye on what happens because of their vote.

[ChristophO]

Do you mind sharing your list? I would like to help, maybe it can be improved.

[berlinballz]

i am not unhappy with my list. i am unhappy with the outlook of a more boring metagame. i have made a low curve naya list that looks very good and i don't see how control strategies are supposed to keep up with aggressive low and midrange strategies. i have stated everything before, so i am not gonna repaet it. meta bores me already though. congrats to the council on giving hl a severe push towards 60 card deck ratios and eliminating a good portion of archetypes and playables.

[LasH]

i am not unhappy with my list. i am unhappy with the outlook of a more boring metagame. i have made a low curve naya list that looks very good and i don't see how control strategies are supposed to keep up with aggressive low and midrange strategies. i have stated everything before, so i am not gonna repaet it. meta bores me already though. congrats to the council on giving hl a severe push towards 60 card deck ratios and eliminating a good portion of archetypes and playables.

And you figured all that after 2 days. You alrdy know how the metagame will evolve with 0 tournaments played, new season not even started.

What do u know what we dont know?

[orca-]

i am not unhappy with my list. i am unhappy with the outlook of a more boring metagame. i have made a low curve naya list that looks very good and i don't see how control strategies are supposed to keep up with aggressive low and midrange strategies. i have stated everything before, so i am not gonna repaet it. meta bores me already though. congrats to the council on giving hl a severe push towards 60 card deck ratios and eliminating a good portion of archetypes and playables.

And in tournaments with 60 cards deck only the aggro/mid range deck win...

[Dreamer]

i am not unhappy with my list. i am unhappy with the outlook of a more boring metagame. i have made a low curve naya list that looks very good and i don't see how control strategies are supposed to keep up with aggressive low and midrange strategies. i have stated everything before, so i am not gonna repaet it. meta bores me already though. congrats to the council on giving hl a severe push towards 60 card deck ratios and eliminating a good portion of archetypes and playables.

And in tournaments with 60 cards deck only the aggro/mid range deck win...

60 card deck ratios, maybe. Maybe.

Actual 60 card singleton, though, allows for a lot better control decks and actual combo/synergy decks to exist.

[berlinballz]

@LaSH: I have just tested a lot and thought about this.

- Combo decks like pattern feel dead without the spoiler mulligan.
- naya feels even stronger.
- 4 color feels unplayable.

I have said it all along, diversity will suffer. I guess some people just have to put their hand on the stove to see that it's hot, even if told so.

But what I am really worried about is, that we probably won't go back to the spoiler mulligan, even if the metagame gets worse. You know why? Because this council has proven to believe that HL needs to move towards "normal magic".

And we damn sure just moved towards normal magic. Where a lot of combo decks and 4-5 color don't exist. Just feels like sad days for HL.

[Nahkampfhamster]

With the new Mulligan I slowlsy get the feeling that all my decks are dead or no fun to play ´:(
It`s so frustrating to get mana/coloursrew all the time . . .
I start to lose faith in this format and the council
It was fun to play because you got the chance to pay decks you could never play in any other formats
But I guess the Casual/Fun HL player has to switch to Commander to keep their pet decks

[Nastaboi]

Is being able to play one's pet deck forever a definition of a good format?

[berlinballz]

Thank you for this question Nastaboi. Very bright. Sums it up perfectly.

We'll talk in April.

[MMD]

Certainly we have some crying A-voters now. It´s seems there are two archetypes of doomsayers, the Uninspired and the Omniscient.

The Uninspired

...expects to use his pet deck list nearly 1:1 with the new mulligan rule and cries that his deck does not work. I can only shake my head that they even blame the council's decision for it.

You should better throw away "your" Spoils deck lists and rebuild your deck from the very beginning, taking into account that the new mulligan will change how the format "works". Take the rules and the anticipated metagame and build your deck, not the other way around. Too bad that you cannot copy/paste winning deck lists at the moment. OK, one free spoiler: Try more lands, a mana curve and less different color symbols.

The Omnicient

...are already fully aware of the all consequences of the new mulligan and the future metagame. As they are all-knowing they should also know that nobody can seriously claim that.

Where is the evidence that fast aggro is unbeatable in the new format? Even if it would be true (which I doubt) you should better build a deck which crushes fast aggro.

Why should the game be less diverse with the new mulligan? Fast combo was nearly dead before and slow combo could now be fast enough to fight power card piles. You should better blame WotC about single card power level nowadays which makes card combinations less appealing.
Sure, 4-5C is nearly dead but perhaps the 2C Guilds can now win major tournaments again. Who knows and why is this worse...?

Time will tell...It seems I have to be enlightened and burn my hands first...


@ Council:  My regards for having the balls to change!

[pyyhttu]

To all:

What MMD said. This is one of those changes that has to be metered out together, and for that I urge to do what Vazdru requested: Post those top-4/top-8 decklists to mtgpulse. We can then using that tool to see what has happened to card and deck diversity. Right now it's too early to say anything.