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Author Topic: Thoughts about the current HL-Situation    (Read 43849 times)
Vazdru
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« Reply #150 on: 23-07-2013, 06:58:29 PM »

How can a HL sideboard be much different to any other constructed format ...  
Mono sideboards are weaker as a matter of fact. No difference to other formats.

btw. i play HL because it is different to other formats - so all those comparisons to other formats are mostly irrelevant for me

as i pointed out elsewhere i played singleton for more than one year and i used sb and played against sideboarded "hl"-decks quite often - so i can say that i looked into the subject a bit

as a matter of fact you have to occupy your sb with 15 cards
Bant will play a few lifegain creatures (Baneslayer, Hierarch) and has enough tutors to make them available pretty often. Furthermore it will always add cards vs mono red as long this is tier 1(.5), which was definately true with official mulligan, so you add CoP: Red and maybe one of two other gamebreakers like Absolute Law, which is good in other matchups too, expecially with unbanned enlightened tutor - same is true for Swords of...
so u still have more or less ten cards for other mu (e. g. Relic of Progenius+Rest in Peace for all gy-based decks, energy flux vs artifact-based decks etc)

a) it's pretty obvious that multicolor decks like bant would benefit most of a sb while mono-color decks like MBC, Mono-Black-Sui, RDW, WW get weakened
b) games 2 and 3 were often decided by a single sb card, so decks w/o cantrips / tutors and library manipulation often wins with a random topdeck but actually loose more often to sb hosers
« Last Edit: 23-07-2013, 07:03:37 PM by Vazdru » Logged

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« Reply #151 on: 23-07-2013, 07:18:23 PM »

update, 51 votes

                                    
   NO.      A) SPOILS      B) FREEMULLIGAN      C) ROAD TO PARIS      Prefering B) > A)      D) OTHER   
   1      W0lf (Ger, Berlin)      Payron (Ger, East)      pyyhttu (Fin)      Payron (Ger, East)      Goblin-Diplomaten (Ger, Berlin)   
   2      berlinballz (Ger, Berlin)      guru (Ger, East)      Tiggupiru (Fin)      guru (Ger, East)      orca- (Ger, BW)   
   3      tonytahiti (Ger, Berlin)      hitman (Ger, BW)      Nastaboi (Fin)      hitman (Ger, BW)      Firestorm Hellkite   
   4      Tabris (Ger, Berlin)      mox-fanatic (Ger, BW)      Lightstorm (Fin)      mox-fanatic (Ger, BW)         
   5      dynagfx (Ger, Berlin)      NerfHerder (Ger, BW)      kasta (Fin)      NerfHerder (Ger, BW)         
   6      Absolem (Ger, Berlin)      Doks (Ger, NRW)      oze (Fin)      Doks (Ger, NRW)         
   7      Vazdru (Ger, BW)      MMD (Ger, NRW)      SirGalahad (Ger, NRW)      MMD (Ger, NRW)         
   8      Maqi (Ger, BW)      LasH (Ger, NRW)      MarcMagic (Ger, NRW)      LasH (Ger, NRW)         
   9      goblinpiledriver (Ger, BW)      ChristophO (Ger, North)      Wasser (Ger, NRW)      ChristophO (Ger, North)         
   10      Orkpopper (Ger, BW)      JohnnyComboplayer (Ger)      Pennywise (Ger, Berlin)      JohnnyComboplayer (Ger)         
   11      peeler (Ger, NRW)      ~fenry~ (Ger)      cagain (Ger, BW)      ~fenry~ (Ger)         
   12      effect (Ger, East)      azmotus (Fin)      helle (Ger)      azmotus (Fin)         
   13      BallLightning (Cze)      so_not (Fin)      Assariah ()      so_not (Fin)         
   14      Thaddeus (Cze)            Lancelot ()      MarcMagic (Ger, NRW)         
   15      nahkampfhamster (Ger)                  SirGalahad (Ger, NRW)         
   16      phyrexianblackmetal (Ger)                  orca- (Ger, BW)         
   17      haju (Ger)                  helle (Ger)         
   18      flashfreeze (Ger)                  kasta (Fin)         
   19      Madsam (Ger)                  Firestorm Hellkite         
   20      EntenMagier (Ger)                  Nastaboi (Fin)         
   21      oschmael (Ger)                           
   22                                 
   23                                 
   24                                 
   25                                 
                                    
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W0lf
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« Reply #152 on: 23-07-2013, 09:40:05 PM »




as i pointed out elsewhere i played singleton for more than one year and i used sb and played against sideboarded "hl"-decks quite often - so i can say that i looked into the subject a bit




So was playing Singelton better than Highlander or worse regarding to the Mulligan rule?
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« Reply #153 on: 23-07-2013, 10:31:36 PM »


So was playing Singelton better than Highlander or worse regarding to the Mulligan rule?

worse obviously as I voted option A - my experience with Singleton those days is one of the main reasons i would always vote against C ...too many games which weren't games at all but bull-shit - nevertheless option B looks like a possible scenario for me, looks like the flaws of "Road to Paris" could almost be eliminated and the "deformation" of the spoils mulligan too


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« Reply #154 on: 05-08-2013, 03:41:01 AM »

Quote
12 WitH-FuLL-Force (Ger, NRW)
BW nicht NRW Cheesy
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Vazdru
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« Reply #155 on: 06-08-2013, 06:59:02 PM »

have a look at finals of worldchampionship 2013...
it has been great magic all day, since....yeah since 2:2 in finals and one guy mulligan to 4... (1:10 h)
guess which guy won  Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dgyHsW9LtM
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« Reply #156 on: 06-08-2013, 07:35:45 PM »

have a look at finals of worldchampionship 2013...
it has been great magic all day, since....yeah since 2:2 in finals and one guy mulligan to 4... (1:10 h)
guess which guy won  Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dgyHsW9LtM

Well, that's combo for you. They sometimes self-destruct. Reid was full aware of that and still chose this deck because when it does work, it just steamrolls everybody. Besides, many of those hands were very close to keepable, and would have probably resulted in some interesting games nonetheless, but he chose to mulligan those hands since they didn't accomplish the goal he was planning to do. Just look at that six card hand. It has lands, creatures and auras. Reid still snap-mulliganed that because it would allow Shahar to interact with him too much. Had he kept that hand and drawn a Boggle or couple of lands, things would have been really interesting. I wouldn't have considered nut-draw from the hexproof to be exactly very interesting conclusion either. I mean, if somebody playing Belcher in Legacy mulligans to three cards and loses the resulting game is not great, but neither are those games where he just goes off every turn one.

You really need to scratch the surface here. There were a _ton_ of decisions before the last keep. Mainly:
a) Is my deck consistent enough, but still powerful enough to win unprepared opponents?
b) Should I mulligan hands that allow too much interaction from my opponents, if so is there a clear line to be drawn (e.g. is no auras or all auras always a mulligan)?
c) Is the metagame aware of this deck or does the expected decks have the necessary tools to beat me regardless?
d) Should I change my deck to be less powerful, but more consistent? Does that result in less win-% against the expected field?

Matchup specific mulligan decision are a whole another matter. That six card hand would have been really good against some other deck, but Pyroclasms and one mana removal would have been devastating.

If you just want interesting games instead of trying just to surprise unprepared meta, pick the URW control. It's basic idea is to interact and grind value and it is consistent so it doesn't mulligan all that much.
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« Reply #157 on: 06-08-2013, 10:09:03 PM »

@ Tiggupiru

I guess your analysis is right...
nevertheless the other 4 games were quite intense and exciting (esp. no. 4) with much interactions between the finalists whereas the last game was lame and only defined by mulligan, the outcome was clear before first card has been played and that shouldn't be the way it goes
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« Reply #158 on: 07-08-2013, 01:35:07 PM »

You can only imagine the level of degeneracy of the hexproof deck if that format had spoils mulligan instead of the normal one.
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0:13:51 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi plays Invincible Hymn from Hand
0:14:25 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi's life total is now 221 (+213)
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« Reply #159 on: 07-08-2013, 05:01:24 PM »

Yes I can, but they play 60 card decks which can contain up to four copies of one card Wink
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« Reply #160 on: 07-08-2013, 06:12:38 PM »

First, why discuss this matter in this thread?

Second, at our last tournament here in Bielefeld i had to mulligan to five before spoiling in the Goodstuff-mirror. Guess who won and how interesting that game was...  Wink
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« Reply #161 on: 07-08-2013, 08:22:12 PM »

@ Galahad

Edit: oha - my bad  Shocked Roll Eyes topic moved  Grin

we don't discuss that point  Wink
i just pointed out that the worldchampionship was great magic all day since the mulligan(s) have ruined the finals (imo) ... which is connected to the subject of the thread "mulligan" in some kind, isn't it?
 
btw. personally I've never gone down to 5 before taking spoils - ever tried free mulligan? Tongue
in your example you've obviously had to take mulligans to 6 and 5 with official DCI rules too but w/o option to increase power of remaining 5 cards ...so the chance not to take part in this game (keep one-lander with 5 cards, going down to 4?) is obviously higher if you have no option to spoil cards
« Last Edit: 07-08-2013, 09:18:01 PM by Vazdru » Logged

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« Reply #162 on: 07-08-2013, 09:29:26 PM »

http://mtg.wikia.com/wiki/Mulligan

The cost for your spells is also an important factor to consider when performing a mulligan, as a card that costs 2 colored mana can probably not be played by turn 2 unless you have those two lands in your hand, and too many high-cost cards means you won't have much of an opening presence.

If your deck's mana curve focuses more on 2 than 3 or higher, it may be worth the risk to accept a 1-land hand but even that can be a risky proposition should you not get the second land when you need it. You'll also need to be more aggressive with your mulligans when you are taking the first turn, because you won't have as much time to get the lands you need.

---

If we dont have these drawbacks from the regular mulligan we see what happens. Aggro dominating meta, Greedy manabases.....................................................


btw. personally I've never gone down to 5 before taking spoils - ever tried free mulligan? Tongue


I never had to go to 5 in my testgames with free mulligan so far. Since the game is slower anyway you r kinda not even lost by going down to 6.

Perfect spoil mulligan curve for player A vs a failed spoil mulligan down to 6. Guess who wins the match.
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