Uwb Control

[WaMMa]

Hello!

There's going to be a highlander tournament soon and I got interested about format. I'm newbie when we are talking about highlander but I have some experience as a magic player. So, I started to examine offical rules and some decklists and ended up to post my current decklist here. I'd really appreciate help, I'm sure you know a lot more about highlander than I do. I barely know anything about metagame - which are the strongest decks at the moment. I also don't know too well older sets/cards which, I think, really sucks because I definately don't even know the existance of some "auto-include" cards. For example at the Morningtide pre-release I was looking through some random pile of a dealer and ended up to buy Kirtar's Wrath and Catastrophe - which I hadn't heard about before.

So, here's my current decklist:

Lands:
5 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 River of Tears
1 Nimbus Maze
1 Mystic Gate
1 Skycloud Expanse
1 Darwater Catacombs
1 Underground River
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Azorius Chanery
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Mutavault
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Urza's Factory (is this srtong enough vs. some color-producing land?)
1 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Maze of Ith
1 Tolaria West
1 Thawing Glaceries
=39 (less, more, toughts?)

Mana accel:
1 Mind Stone
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Dimir Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Azorius Signet
1 Coalition Relic
=7

Creatures:
1 Liliana Vess (good enough?)
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Angel of Despair
1 Morphling
1 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
1 Aeon Chronicler
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
1 Shriekmaw
1 Trinket Mage
=11+Liliana (I'm currently concidering about Court Hussar, would it be worth a slot?)

Sorceries:
1 Mind Spring (good enough?)
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Kirtar's Wrath
1 Catasrtophe
1 Wrath of God
1 Damnation
1 Compulsive Research
1 Ancestral Visions
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vindicate
1 Deep Analysis (I don't like too much about Analysis and Research because of the sorcery speed)
1 Serum Visions (good enough? should I add Ponder insted?)
=13

Instants:
1 Condescend
1 Memory Lapse (I'm not sure about this, can still help vs. some faster aggros?)
1 Remand (same thing as with Lapse but this is, I guess, a bit better)
1 Mana Leak
1 Counterspell
1 Undermine
1 Absorb
1 Dissipate
1 Forbid
1 Cryptic Command
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Mortify
1 Terror (good enough? maybe Diabolic Edict?
1 Disenchant
1 Repeal
1 Dominate
1 Impulse
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Brainstorm
1 Fact of Fiction
=20

Enchantments:
1 Control Magic
1 Treachery
1 Legacy's Allure (good enough?)
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Future Sight
1 Faith's Fetters
=6

Artifacts:
1 Nevinyrral's Disk (I'm going to cut this as I have enough Wraths and this hurts Signets etc.)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Vedalken Shackles
=4


I'd definately want some room for Enlightened Tutor and Pact of Negation. Anything else I should add? Which cards to cut for them? Andvice is appreciated as I earlier mentioned! Thanks!

-WaMMa

[Mythrandir]

well, at a first glance, you should add/consider these cards (sorry if they are there.. but like i said, quick glance)

- tithe
- mana drain
- phyrexian furance better tha scrabbling claws (or u could have both - my advice, get both or a tormod crypt)
- zuran orb
- moat (mostly your finishers have flying)
- eternal dragon
- exalted angel
- enlightned tutor
- mystical teachings
- faerie trickery
- "white" command more versatile tha akroma vengeance (specially because u play with loads of artefacts)
- pact of negation/force of will (or both)
- psychatog
- gush
- academy rector
- decree of silence
- hinder

also u might consider "stuffy doll combo" and then add academy ruins.

you should cut:
- morphling (better creatures out there, specially in a 3 colored deck.) i´ve played morph before, and it wasnt that great.
- angel fo despair (too expensive)
- mind spring (stroke of genius is way better)
- terror
- serum visions
- legacy allure

hope it helps.. didnt take alook at the lands, sry... =/ but 39 + accel seems good, you can probably cut 1/2 lands even.

[Vazdru]

Think about cutting some non-basic lands - u played almost as many as a 5C-Deck. There are lots of hate cards around, especially Back to Basics, Price of Progress, Blood Moon and so on. I think 15 basic lands would be good, altogether 36/37 lands (you have lots of mana acceleration).

Academy Rector and Enlightened Tutor are "No-Brainers".

One of your strongest enemies is called "Life from the Loam"-Engine - so you should add some more "Graveyard-Hate" (Crypt, Furnace, Cremate) and Remove-Spells, such as Faerie Trickery, Syncopate and Hinder (stronger than e. g. Undermine)

Decree of Justice and Exalted Angel are definitely worth playing as well (stronger than e. g. Dominate, Keiga)

Like my buddy said, cut Morphling, Mind Spring, Angel of Despair, Legacy Allure, Serum Visions, Keiga, Ancestral Visions.

Think about

- Land Tax
- Condemn
- Thirst for Knowledge
- Mulldrifter
- Court Hussar
- Animate Dead

[WaMMa]

Lands:
6 Island
3 Swamp
3 Plains
1 Mystic Gate
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Azorius Chanery
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Mutavault
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Tolaria West
1 Thawing Glaceries.
=36+Maze

-
1 Urza's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Skycloud Expanse
1 Darwater Catacombs
1 Underground River
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 River of Tears
1 Nimbus Maze
1 Academy Ruins.
+
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Sunken Ruins.

=-3

Right calls?


Creatures:
1 Liliana Vess
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
1 Aeon Chronicler
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
1 Shriekmaw
1 Trinket Mage
1 Court Hussar
1 Augury Adept (decided to test this little thingy)
1 Mulldrifter
1 Academy Rector
1 Exalted Angel.

-
1 Angel of Despair
1 Morphling
1 Keiga
+
1 Mulldrifter
1 Court Hussar
1 Augury Adept
1 Academy Rector
1 Exalted Angel

=+2

That looks pretty solid to me, Augury adept will be closely observed.

Sorceries:
1 Kirtar's Wrath
1 Catasrtophe
1 Wrath of God
1 Damnation
1 Compulsive Research
1 Ancestral Visions
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vindicate
1 Deep Analysis
1 Austere Command
1 Decree of Justice.

-
1 Mind Spring
1 Serum Visions
1 Akroma's Vengeance
+
1 Austere Command
1 Decree of Justice

=-1

I'm huge fan of Ancestral Visions, I really like the possibility to tutor it with Tolaria West. I'll try to scout some decks, mainly to decide the number of Wrath effects I'll play.


Instants:
1 Condescend
1 Mana Leak
1 Counterspell
1 Absorb
1 Dissipate
1 Forbid
1 Cryptic Command
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Mortify
1 Disenchant
1 Repeal
1 Dominate
1 Impulse
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Brainstorm
1 Fact of Fiction
1 Condemn
1 Pact of Negation
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mana Drain
1 Faerie Trickery.

-
1 Terror
1 Undermine
1 Memory Lapse
1 Remand
+
1 Condemn
1 Pact of Negation
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Mana Drain

=+1

Decided to cut Remand, it seems to be inferior to other counters.

Enchantments:
1 Control Magic
1 Treachery
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Future Sight
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Moat
1 Decree of Silence

-
1 Legacy's Allure
+
1 Moat
1 Decree of Silence

=+1

I totally forgot about Moat. I'll absolutely play it if someone can borrow me one then. Decided to add Decree too beacuse of Rector.


Artifacts:
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Tormod's Crypt

-
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
+
1 Tormod's Crypt

=-1


So, it's looking a lot better right now, huh? I have limited possibilities to test this format and there is nearly noone playing highlander with mws. I thank you guys for the help, keep it going and feel free to criticise my choises. Especially my manabase skills are poor not to mention I should build one for highlander!

-WaMMa

[Mythrandir]

well, if u want, u can add me on ICQ/msn (better is msn) and we´ll play. i often play with other players of this forum.

[grizzledmage]

So happens that while WaMMA was posting this I was in the midst of a similar build, UB control with a strong eye for stealing the other guy's stuff. After some tweaking, here's what I have thus far, although it is yet highly subject to change/revision:

// Lands
    1 [FUT] River of Tears
    1 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
    1 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
    1 [MI] Bad River
    1 [SC] Temple of the False God
    1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 [RAV] Dimir Aqueduct
    1 [TO] Tainted Isle
    1 [LRW] Vivid Creek
    1 [RAV] Watery Grave
    1 [10E] Underground River
    1 [8E] Salt Marsh
    1 [CS] Frost Marsh
    1 [TSP] Urza's Factory
    1 [LRW] Vivid Marsh
    1 [10E] Terramorphic Expanse
    1 [10E] Faerie Conclave
    1 [10E] Spawning Pool
    1 [TSP] Dreadship Reef
    1 [FUT] Tolaria West
    9 [10E] Island
    8 [9E] Swamp
    1 [ON] Barren Moor
    1 [ON] Lonely Sandbar
    1 [LRW] Secluded Glen

// Spells
    1 [10E] Mind Stone
    1 [RAV] Muddle the Mixture
    1 [5E] Brainstorm
    1 [MR] Talisman of Dominance
    1 [9E] Annex
    1 [LRW] Profane Command
    1 [LRW] Cryptic Command
    1 [FD] Night's Whisper
    1 [RAV] Remand
    1 [TE] Dismiss
    1 [9E] Rewind
    1 [5E] Binding Grasp
    1 [R] Demonic Tutor
    1 [9E] Mana Leak
    1 [LRW] Faerie Trickery
    1 [FUT] Pact of Negation
    1 [10E] Beacon of Unrest
    1 [10E] Cancel
    1 [OD] Diabolic Tutor
    1 [DIS] Spell Snare
    1 [MOR] Negate
    1 [10E] Remove Soul
    1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
    1 [UD] Treachery
    1 [4E] Control Magic
    1 [PLC] Enslave
    1 [10E] Persuasion
    1 [6E] Counterspell
    1 [10E] Counsel of the Soratami
    1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    1 [10E] Telling Time
    1 [FD] Staff of Domination
    1 [9E] Confiscate
    1 [TSP] Phyrexian Totem
    1 [IN] Spite/Malice
    1 [TSP] Strangling Soot
    1 [UL] Swat
    1 [ON] Smother
    1 [TSP] Chronatog Totem
    1 [RAV] Dimir Signet
    1 [NE] Dominate
    1 [TE] Legacy's Allure
    1 [REW] Damnation
    1 [CHK] Rend Flesh
    1 [TSP] Sudden Death
    1 [LRW] Eyeblight's Ending
    1 [LRW] Ponder
    1 [RAV] Copy Enchantment
    1 [RAV] Followed Footsteps
    1 [AL] Force of Will
    1 [IN] Drake-Skull Cameo
    1 [5E] Nevinyrral's Disk
    1 [FUT] Take Possession
    1 [8E] Inspiration
    1 [US] Expunge
    1 [CS] Chill to the Bone
    1 [FD] Devour in Shadow
    1 [9E] Fellwar Stone
    1 [TE] Capsize
    1 [FUT] Foresee

As you see, a number of close similarities to WaMMa's build. Spells/enchantments to steal other guy's things, lots of counter spells, lots of creature removal. I have included few to no creatures of my own (although Dominating Licid keeps showing up in some of my versions), for no particular reason. In the absence of being able to steal any of the other guy's creatures, I still have other kill conditions with Urza's Factory, Chronatog Totem, Phyrexian Totem, Faerie Conclave, Spawning Pool, and Profane Command has often served as a finisher.

The comment on WaMMa's build re: too many nonbasic lands resonates here as well; I confess I had not thought before of Blood Moon as a threat. And to be honest, many of those nonbasics CIP tapped so it won't be too painful to swap them out for some more basic lands. But other thoughts/suggestions before I proceed? (FWIW, initial testing has been fairly positive thus far.)

[BadAss Grandma]

grizzledmage how about animate dead or Debtors' Knell?  Debtors may be a little high on the casting cost but its good late game

[Mythrandir]

i think the biggest problem is the cost of "stealling spells" and the the fact that some of them are easily disechanted.. but its probably a fun deck to play.

[BadAss Grandma]

true... I forgot to mention my favorite spell for stealing, Bribery.  Bribery is def one of my favorites and it cant be disenchanted like he said. 

[grizzledmage]

grizzledmage how about animate dead or Debtors' Knell?  Debtors may be a little high on the casting cost but its good late game

I looked at both, and may look at them again. Note that Debtor's Knell is no more costly than Take Possession... nice!

Don't know about Bribery. I think I prefer to steal creatures after they've come into play for 2 reasons: (a) better card advantage (they've already used those mana, and whatever other, resources for that turn), and a bigger (I think) psychological edge... nothing like seeing them smile as a juicy creature comes down, and then the major chagrin when it changes sides.

Yes a lot of these are subject to disenchanting... but then, I have a lot of counter in here and there's a good chance I can foil their attempts to retrieve their permanent. Also, even if they do manage to disenchant, they've spent two spells to get to that point whereas I've only expended one... and I might still be able to steal it again or remove it.

[Mythrandir]

yeah, that´s tru for control decks that run fatties and every creature is a great creature, but how about for aggro? RG, RDW, blue skies.. etc.. casting a 6 mana spell to steal a 1/1 or a 2/2 isnt that good..
but even though, i like the concept

[grizzledmage]

OK, so a bunch of people came over on Sunday for a hodgepodge of Magic; two guys and I ended up in a 3-way Highlander match at one point. One fellow was playing GR aggro and the other guy was running... UB control! He didn't go the "steal permanent" route but there were lots of similarities between his deck and mine.

Long story short, we ended up discussing the decks... one card that he played that I'd completely overlooked was Ribbons of Night. Another that neither of us were playing that seemed appropriate is Guile.

Based on this and other thoughts, I went ahead with the following changes:

-Ribbons of Night in for Strangling Soot (RoN is more expensive AND a Sorcery, BUT it removes bigger creatures, gains life, and replaces itself.)
-Guile in for Binding Grasp (Binding Grasp probably the worst of the "steal" spells, primarily because of the upkeep costs, and Guile has the potential to end up stealing multiple permanents... plus it's a beast in combat)
-Debtor's Knell in for Take Possession (as previously discussed.)

Yes; 2 of the 3 swapped-in spells cause a slightly higher mana curve but I already have a goodly amount of artifact-based mana acceleration.

The tweaking goes on...

[Mythrandir]

you should test the deck out, have you consider playing in the league?

BTW: has anyone here heard that the new judge promo is demonic tutor!! it´s just awesome. :D

[grizzledmage]

Would love to try playing in the league but don't know how to get hooked in... if you can provide some direction that would be great.

OTOH, my play is often cause for embarrassment, so maybe I should think about this...

[Mythrandir]

Would love to try playing in the league but don't know how to get hooked in... if you can provide some direction that would be great.

OTOH, my play is often cause for embarrassment, so maybe I should think about this...

hooked? meaning registration? well, simply go to this post: http://www.magicplayer.org/forum/index.php?topic=94.0

its a free league, the only thing you need is to be a forum member (which you´re already)

embarrasment because you arent a experienced player? well, the only way to get experience is by playing, specially in competitive games. so i dont think anyone in the league will mock or refuse to play with you.