Dream Halls in Highlander

[pyyhttu]

About a week ago I had a league match against Sturmgott and in the post game chit chat he mentioned Dream Halls:

0:24:11 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> I got to give you that:
0:24:18 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> Hulk and TPS were harldly fun.
0:24:43 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> i think the currently best combo deck is dreamhalls
0:24:46 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> First round degenerate combos are something for Vintage only, but "accident" kills should be in HL also
0:24:50 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> hmm..
0:25:01 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> I have to tell you that haven't seen any builds of it.
0:25:05 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> U/B/w build
0:25:08 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> Able to link me into one?
0:25:16 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> no, only got one offline
0:25:20 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> alright.
0:25:48 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> LOADS of draw spells, all the tutors, all timewalks
0:25:54 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> all 3?
0:26:03 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> those 2 from portal as well ?
0:26:04 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> all 4
0:26:18 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> especially the one that gives you two turns
0:26:26 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> blue myojin
0:26:27 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> I have em, should put them together and see what comes.
0:26:29 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> yeah
0:26:35 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> and tendrils of agony
0:26:35 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> what's the kill comdition?
0:26:39 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> right.
0:26:45 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> some protection
0:26:54 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> duress, thoughtseize, chant, abeyance
0:27:07 [pyyhttu] <pyyhttu> Well, I'll post the forums and ask if they have some insight into it.
0:27:21 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> second kill condition is zombie infestation
0:27:29 [Sturmgott] <Sturmgott> + time walks

In Highlander circles I've seen Dream Halls deck mentioned frequently in different sources (The deck is dismissed in that last thread quite heavily) and so far haven't witnessed (excluding old t2) that anyone in his sane mind has _seriously_ taken part in a tournament with Dream Halls-combo.

Soo... Heeding Sturmgott's advice ("LOADS of draw spells, all the tutors, all timewalks") and exploiting an old "reference-build" I actually went and quickly put together a "pile" of good cards from the sector of draw, tutor and timewalks (and disruption) and wrapped them around Dream Halls, Myojin, Show and Tell etc. but fail to see how this would make the best combo deck.

So my question is: Other than having Dream Halls deck being a good inside joke in Germany (is it?), have you seen a Dream Halls-deck played in your local tournament or do you even have your own build you run? What is it like and how does it work against others? Go to, folks!

[Mythrandir]

well, i havent seen any deck that run on dream halls, it seem a little fragile depending on 1 card even with all the tutors. but who knows.. i think that it isnt cvery consistent, but ive been wrong before.

[Vazdru]

i haven't seen any good dream hall deck as well ... and i've seen a lot of decks; personally i can't believe that dream hall combo is best combo deck actually

there are still some decent oath decks around, i prefer guilty-stuffy as well

in my opinion cephalid's breakfast is an insider tip - i've lost several times with a mid-range aggro deck against such a build

[Mythrandir]

there are still some decent oath decks around, i prefer guilty-stuffy as well

yup, me too, specially because you dont need to build the deck around it (stuffy), unlike dreams of halls.
even your survival deck has better combos that hall of dreams.. i think it is very fragile, depending on a single card, either u build a good deck with halls, but dont depend entirely on it or else i dont think it will see that many games. just my opinion.. but i´m not that expert on combo decks.. =/

[coldcrow]

1st of all : Greetings! Just registered here.

I run a more or less casual U/R combo deck. Killing condition is simple burn to the head with enablers for mana- and draw cheats. If you are intrested i will post the list and hoepfully you have some advices to tune it.

As it is right now it has zero protection, which obviously wont work vs serious decks.

Beacon of Destruction
Bloodstained Mire
Brainstorm
Bribery
Browbeat
Carbonize
Cave-In
Chain Lightning
Char
Deep Analysis
Dream Halls
Electrolyze
Empty the Warrens
Enervate
Eye of the Storm
Fact or Fiction
Fire/Ice
Fireblast
Flames of the Blood Hand
Flooded Strand
Flux
Fork
Frantic Search
Grinning Ignus
Gush
Ignite Memories
Incinerate
Inspiration
Island x 16
Izzet Boilerworks
Lightning Blast
Lightning Bolt
Lotus Bloom
Lotus Petal
Magma Jet
Mana Flare
Mindblaze
Mind's Desire
Mischievous Quanar
Mountain x 16
Opportunity
Orcish Cannonade
Panoptic Mirror
Polluted Delta
Ponder
Prophetic Bolt
Psionic Blast
Quicken
Recoup
Relearn
Rift Bolt
Seething Song
Spellweaver Volute
Steam Vents
Temporal Fissure
Temporal Manipulation
Thunderbolt
Tidings
Time Spiral
Time Warp
Twincast
Twitch
Uyo, Silent Prophet
Volcanic Island
Walk the Aeons
Wash Out
Wooded Foothills
Words of Wisdom
Zap

[pyyhttu]

1st of all : Greetings! Just registered here.

Greetings and welcome. Say, you don't happen to be _the_ same coldcrow from #octgn at irc.ircstorm.net? In that case we've met in form of UB Staxx vs. GW Enchantress.

As it is right now it has zero protection, which obviously wont work vs serious decks.

I have some trouble outlining your deck from the mere decklist. Could you add some notes about it? How does it work? Right now it somehow reminds me of Stronghold era CounterPhoenix, without the counters, nor Phoenix.

I can see it has win conditions such as Panoptic Mirror/various time walks and Empty the Warrens. Mindblaze looks interesting and inventive addition, seems to suit on paper well into highlander but has it worked for you in this deck?

Giving the high mana curve of your deck, I'd run at least Force of Will & Misdirection to keep up with the tempo and Mana Drain to catch up with the tempo. Also, playing blue in this context without the other good counterspells isn't the way to go, if you ever plan to run this in competetive environment. Ditch at least the bad symmetric spells like Flux, and too narrow cards (Zap).

If I were building this, I'd also add some more mana artifacts (Medallions, Mox Diamond > Lotus Petal), tweak the build towards slow tempo (make it more controllish) and fit in cards that gain advantage from slower tempo (e.g. Thawing Glaciers, you've got a good basic land base for that as well).

P.S what's with the Grinning Ignus? Another combo?

[coldcrow]

Exactly this coldcrow I am.

Anyways: this deck was highly casual but since I lean to turn all my yet casual decks into competetive ones I figured it'd be best to ask around here.

Of course your suggestions are right. I'd run artifact mana + the best counters. Also some bouce in forme of chains rushing river and so on would be good.

To the deck ideas: Drawing through it, eventually burning away at creatures + head then dropping a win condition in form of racketing up a storm counter for desire/memories or dreamhalls/volute and win .It fizzled more often than not and any game altering enchantments plus counters ruined it royally.

[Vazdru]

1st of all : Greetings! Just registered here.

I run a more or less casual U/R combo deck. Killing condition is simple burn to the head with enablers for mana- and draw cheats. If you are intrested i will post the list and hoepfully you have some advices to tune it.

As it is right now it has zero protection, which obviously wont work vs serious decks.

Beacon of Destruction
Bloodstained Mire
Brainstorm
Bribery
Browbeat
Carbonize
Cave-In
Chain Lightning
Char
Deep Analysis
Dream Halls
Electrolyze
Empty the Warrens
Enervate
Eye of the Storm
Fact or Fiction
Fire/Ice
Fireblast
Flames of the Blood Hand
Flooded Strand
Flux
Fork
Frantic Search
Grinning Ignus
Gush
Ignite Memories
Incinerate
Inspiration
Island x 16
Izzet Boilerworks
Lightning Blast
Lightning Bolt
Lotus Bloom
Lotus Petal
Magma Jet
Mana Flare
Mindblaze
Mind's Desire
Mischievous Quanar
Mountain x 16
Opportunity
Orcish Cannonade
Panoptic Mirror
Polluted Delta
Ponder
Prophetic Bolt
Psionic Blast
Quicken
Recoup
Relearn
Rift Bolt
Seething Song
Spellweaver Volute
Steam Vents
Temporal Fissure
Temporal Manipulation
Thunderbolt
Tidings
Time Spiral
Time Warp
Twincast
Twitch
Uyo, Silent Prophet
Volcanic Island
Walk the Aeons
Wash Out
Wooded Foothills
Words of Wisdom
Zap

I would like to see such a deck in action  It's hard to discuss card choices if you can hardly imagine how it works.

Felix Heptner played a similar deck (Dreamhalls Combo - UWB - using Tendrils for the win) in the last GP - 29th out of 88 competitors.

[pyyhttu]

Felix Heptner played a similar deck (Dreamhalls Combo - UWB - using Tendrils for the win) in the last GP - 29th out of 88 competitors.

@Vazdru: Well I'll be damned: I thought this Dream Halls was really something for Johnies out there but if someone managed to pilot it that high, then there must have been some truth in Sturmgotts claims. I'll have to look into this deeper... If you Vazdru can obtain the decklist of that Felix's deck (or hint him to post it here), I'd surely would like to take a peek into it.

@Coldcrow: As said before, I'd choose the path of control and actually mix the CounterPhoenix archetype in (Shard Phoenix and Forbid, maybe even Hammer of Bogardan, it was the house back in 1997 (Janosch Kühn)) and start from there. If you need slots, I'd start ditching first the worst storm card and narrow burn spells. Feel free to /msg me at #octgn if you need help with play testing, I live on GMT +2 so take that into consideration.

[coldcrow]

Hello.

I fiddled around with the deck some more and changed it into a straight TPS.

// Lands
    1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [ON] Flooded Strand
    6 [ALA] Island (1)
    1 [ALA] Mountain (1)
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [GP] Steam Vents
    1 [R] Volcanic Island
    1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
    2 [9E] Swamp (1)
    1 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
    1 [A] Underground Sea
    1 [RAV] Watery Grave
    1 [DIS] Blood Crypt
    1 [AN] Library of Alexandria
    1 [ALA] Grixis Panorama
    1 [FUT] Graven Cairns
    1 [A] Badlands
    1 [EVE] Cascade Bluffs
    1 [TSP] Dreadship Reef
    1 [IN] Geothermal Crevice
    1 [TSP] Molten Slagheap
    1 [IN] Ancient Spring
    1 [IN] Sulfur Vent
    1 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    2 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
    1 [CS] Snow-Covered Mountain
    6 [CS] Snow-Covered Island

// Spells
    1 [CST] Brainstorm
    1 [TO] Deep Analysis
    1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
    1 [UL] Frantic Search
    1 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
    1 [MM] Gush
    1 [TSP] Ignite Memories
    1 [BD] Impulse
    1 [TE] Intuition
    1 [TE] Lotus Petal
    1 [5E] Mana Flare
    1 [8E] Merchant Scroll
    1 [SC] Mind's Desire
    1 [SH] Mox Diamond
    1 [PT] Personal Tutor
    1 [LRW] Ponder
    1 [CST] Portent
    1 [OD] Recoup
    1 [ST] Relearn
    1 [9E] Seething Song
    1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    1 [9E] Sleight of Hand
    1 [SC] Temporal Fissure
    1 [US] Time Spiral
    1 [10E] Twincast
    1 [AL] Arcane Denial (1)
    1 [UL] Snap
    1 [LG] Mana Drain
    1 [RAV] Telling Time
    1 [FD] Serum Visions
    1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
    1 [TSP] Mystical Teachings
    1 [AL] Force of Will
    1 [AL] Lim-Dul's Vault
    1 [RAV] Perplex
    1 [A] Demonic Tutor
    1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
    1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
    1 [MR] Chrome Mox
    1 [US] Duress
    1 [MI] Dark Ritual
    1 [FUT] Pact of Negation
    1 [OD] Tainted Pact
    1 [TO] Cabal Ritual
    1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
    1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
    1 [GP] Gigadrowse
    1 [JU] Burning Wish
    1 [RAV] Remand
    1 [DS] Echoing Truth
    1 [TE] Mana Severance
    1 [FNM] Remand
    1 [FD] Night's Whisper
    1 [RAV] Sins of the Past
    1 [IN] Opt
    1 [US] Rain of Filth
    1 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
    1 [AP] Fire/Ice
    1 [GP] Electrolyze
    1 [MOR] Disperse
    1 [RAV] Shred Memory


Up to know its a pretty decent goldfish of turn 5-8. The strength is obviously the chance of ridiculous topdecks like spiral/sins/gains and whatnot. It's still quite light on protection, so I'd welcome thoughts on that matter.

Edited for better overview.

[kyle.smith]

the card conflux will be the one to break dreamhalls. pitch any colored card to cast it and search for:
(ex.)searing wind, RG card, sins of the past, BW card, and pact of negation.

GL

[Thibir]

Hello.

I fiddled around with the deck some more and changed it into a straight TPS.



// Spells
   
   
    1 [RAV] Remand
    1 [FNM] Remand
   

just quick note, you got remand twice in your list

[Georg B]

I am testing this deck for a wile.
Its pritty nice:

// Lands
    1 [RAV] Dimir Aqueduct
    1 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
    1 [FUT] River of Tears
    1 [AN] Library of Alexandria
    1 [FUT] Tolaria West
    1 [MM] Saprazzan Skerry
    1 [EX] City of Traitors
    1 [5E] Svyelunite Temple
    1 [SHM] Mystic Gate
    1 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    1 [6E] Crystal Vein
    1 [MM] Rishadan Port
    1 [TE] Wasteland
    1 [ON] Lonely Sandbar
    1 [DIS] Azorius Chancery
    1 [] Island (1)
    1 [] Tundra
    1 [RAV] Watery Grave
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [] Underground Sea
    1 [] Scrubland
    1 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [ON] Windswept Heath
    1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [CH] City of Brass
    1 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
    1 [GP] Godless Shrine
    1 [9E] Underground River
    1 [10E] Adarkar Wastes
    1 [10E] Caves of Koilos
    1 [ALA] Arcane Sanctum
    1 [MI] Bad River

// Spells
    1 [ST] Grim Tutor
    1 [AL] Force of Will
    1 [IN] Disrupt
    1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
    1 [SH] Dream Halls
    1 [PT] Cruel Tutor
    1 [RAV] Brainspoil
    1 [8E] Diabolic Tutor
    1 [LG] Mana Drain
    1 [R] Demonic Tutor
    1 [MOR] Idyllic Tutor
    1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
    1 [6E] Relearn
    1 [FD] Night's Whisper
    1 [VI] Impulse
    1 [LRW] Ponder
    1 [PT] Personal Tutor
    1 [TO] Obsessive Search
    1 [FUT] Coalition Relic
    1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    1 [OD] Zombie Infestation
    1 [MM] Counterspell
    1 [FD] Pentad Prism
    1 [MR] Talisman of Progress
    1 [MR] Talisman of Dominance
    1 [DS] Darksteel Ingot
    1 [RAV] Remand
    1 [TE] Lotus Petal
    1 [TSP] Lotus Bloom
    1 [SH] Mox Diamond
    1 [MR] Chrome Mox
    1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
    1 [US] Duress
    1 [FUT] Pact of Negation
    1 [TSP] Mystical Teachings
    1 [MR] Promise of Power
    1 [P3] Brilliant Plan
    1 [7E] Ancestral Memories
    1 [SC] Mind's Desire
    1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
    1 [ON] Future Sight
    1 [8E] Merchant Scroll
    1 [MR] Temporal Cascade
    1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
    1 [RAV] Sins of the Past
    1 [TSP] Careful Consideration
    1 [6E] Infernal Contract
    1 [UD] Yawgmoth's Bargain
    1 [ALA] Brilliant Ultimatum
    1 [MM] Gush
    1 [IA] Brainstorm
    1 [OV] Meditate
    1 [TE] Scroll Rack
    1 [IN] Opt
    1 [IA] Diabolic Vision
    1 [CHK] Petals of Insight
    1 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
    1 [ALA] Covenant of Minds
    1 [OD] Concentrate
    1 [SC] Rush of Knowledge
    1 [US] Time Spiral
    1 [7E] Opportunity
    1 [OD] Time Stretch
    1 [TSP] Walk the Aeons
    1 [P2] Temporal Manipulation
    1 [FD] Beacon of Tomorrows
    1 [10E] Tidings
    1 [ALA] Cruel Ultimatum

[Mythrandir]

no conflux? Every time i hear dream halls i hear conflux also.

Also since you play some enchantments, being the key card one, why not academy rector?

[Georg B]

I do not have Conflux for MWS. When I got it, it is inside, sure. Maybe I could also play Progenitus since it wins the game when it hits the board.

And the Rector simply doesn't made the cut.
I have to play a lot of drawspells to minimize the risk to fizzle, so a lot of good cards didn't make the cut.