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Started by Dreamer, 04-09-2012, 02:23:36 PM

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Tiggupiru

Quote from: MMD on 16-09-2012, 02:49:46 PM
Better ask me how many seven mana creatures I would like to have in my deck if my plan is to play fair an ramp into that - one.

If you play cards like Grim Monolith and Thran Dynamo, you can easily get away with two, three being the okay if you can't find enough good six mana alternatives.

tonytahiti

deathrite shaman.

thats an highlander staple right there. 4c/5c, bug aggro control.

thats a real card if i have ever seen one.
Winner - Pro HL Cup, Prague 2002
Winner - Highlander Regional Masters, Phuket 2006
Winner - Sunrise Trophy Run, Hawaii 2006
Winner - North Dakota HL Championships 2007
Winner - Tahiti "One And Only"-Cup #3, 2009
Winner - Gio di Gio Seria, Florenz, 2016
Winner - Jail or be Jailed, Berlin, 2017

MMD

Yes, looks like a staple.

Rest in Peace - Looks like they are getting near to the "ultimate graveyard hate". Not very HLish but at least another all format SB staple.

Feel free to browse through my MKM account:

http://www.magickartenmarkt.de/index.php?mainPage=showSellerChart&idInfoUser=13199

I also have a huge amount of chinese and japanese foil HL staples not listed yet,  which I would like to downgrade to english foil. Just let me know!

coldcrow

More powercreep on legs, ultimate GY hate, 3 mana counters, junky combo engines: YAY!  :'(

GoblinPiledriver

#34
Here my review of most of the highlander-relevant cards in a 5 point scale:

Abrupt Decay             5,0/5
The best card in set. It's more than a glorified Smother, it kills nearly every nonland permanent with only 2 mana.
Deathrite Shaman         4,6/5  
Produces colored Mana, shot lifeloss to an opponent like a Grim Lavamancer, and removes Creatures for 2 life. It's ultraflexible and only cost 1 Mana. It nearly seems overpowered.
Loxodon Smiter          4,3/5    
This creature is not a vanilla creature since it has 2 abilitys, until it is on the Battlefiled, then it has no relevant abilitys. 4/4 for 3 mana is good enough for this meta.
Mizzium Mortars          4,2/5  
This is a good spot removal like Flame Slash in early game and mass removal in late game.
Cyclonic Rift                4,0/5  
I think it's a liitle less effective then Mizzium Mortar because it doesn't kill but it's Overload cost is easier to cast for multicolored decks.


 Dreadbore                 3,9/5  
Hard creature/planeswalker remvoal for 2 mana with no restrictions is always welcomed
 Izzet Charm               3,8/5  
3 good options: Shock; Spell Pierce; Careful Study.
 Dryad Militant            3,7/5  
In aggresive decks Savannah Lions/Jungle Lion and so on where omnipresent, this creature is easier to cast and removes a few cards in grave
Rakdos Crackler          3,7/5  
2/2 for one mana,this sounds much better than Jackal Pup and will be often seen in highlander
 Detention Sphere        3,5/5  
As good as an Oblivion Ring but a little expensiver.
 Dreg Mangler             3,4/5  
Simplyier to cast Boggart-Ram-Gang with an afterlife.
Chromatic Lantern      3,1/5    
Enables Tabernacle and such cards and fixes the mana perfect.The only better artifactmana for 3 is Coalition Relic.
   Supreme Verdict        3,1/5
Sounds acceptable. Another day of Judgement with a plus against aggrocontrol decks.
 Selesnya Charm          3,0/5  
Creature pump, 2/2-Vigilance , or removing big creatures. This card offers the right for every situation
  Ash Zealot                 3,0/5  
2/2 haste and first strike is ideal for  a creature in a RDW.
  Precinct Captain         3,0/5  
2/2 first strike and brings additional creatures. Ideal for White Weenie


Vraska the Unseen         2,9/5    
Flexible but expensive. We will have to wait and see.
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius  2,8/5    
Shots flexible on creatures, players and draws cards, but will suffer on being legendary.
 Jace, Architect of Thought 2,7/5  
Tabris said this Jace would replace Fact or Fiction in his decks. But for bringing a complete Fact or Fiction you need to activate it twice and removing 4 counters. I think this card is overated, it works best against creatures with 2 or 1 power(corrected), and it fails against bigger creatures.
Gatecreeper Vine          2,6/5    
This creature can be best compared to Sylvan Ranger(not Sylvan Messenger, like Tabris said on Youtube). It function as well as the Ranger, but the 1/1 Ranger is better in creature combat.
  Judge's Familiar            2,6/5  
The best Suntail Hawk you can imagine
Rest in Peace               2,5/5    
Combopart with Helm of Obidience or the ultimate grave hate, which cycles itself(corrected).
Lotleh Troll                 2,4/5    
This card is overrated, you will never want to discard creatures, if you are not playing Reanimator.
 Worldspine Wurm         2,3/5  
Ideal for 2 decks: Hypergenesis and Mono-G-Ramp. The Wurm will not replace Primeval Titan in decks with Natural Order. The Titan is good enough and could be cast more likely than the Wurm.
Nivmagus Elemental      2,2/5    
It would be perfect with 2/1, but as a 1/2 you really need to exile at least one spell early to deal a good amount if damage.
Goblin Electromancer     2,1/5    
It's not a good Helm of Awakening. Maybe it's a good Midrange Creature.
Lyvev Skynight             2,1/5    
For this mana you already have Serendib Efreet,Aven Mindcensor and Aven Mimeomancer. This creature will not replace them.
 Underworld Connections 2,0/5  
A little bit worse than Phyrexian Arena.


 Rakdos Charm              1,9/5  
This charm is quite interesting. Tormod's Crypt, Shatter and Stronghold Discipline.
 Hypersonic Dragon        1,8/5  
I really thought he would give flashback. Now only 4/4 Haste, Flying is remaining. There are better creatures for 5 mana.
  Guttersnipe                  1,7/5  
This card is not a TPS card. It's not TPS style to play a creature before going into combo. This card is good in spell-rich decks, like UR-Counterburn.
 Azorius Charm              1,2/5  
Lifelink, Cycling and Condem Time Ebb. This ability's are not good enough.
  Deadbridge Goliath         1,2/5  
There are already enough 5/5 creatures for 4 Mana. Scavenge for six mana sounds too much.
Slitherhead                   1,1/5    
Even in the Pre-Release I didn't played this card. 1/1 for one mana is not enough and one +1/1 counter is also not enough for a good card.
Golgari Charm              1,1/5    
This charm is the worst of all 5. Nausea, Wrap in Vigor and enchantment destruction sounds unplayable.
Throw enough goblins at any problem and it should go away. At the very least, there'll be fewer goblins.

Nastaboi

How does Rest in Peace cycle? Deathrite Shaman requires you to load up on fetchlands, which makes it slightly unreliable mana elf with an upside. How is Niv-Mizzet's legendary status a problem? I can only think of Karakas and that doesn't turn up that often. You probably meant that Jace works well against creatures with low power, no toughness.

How do you feel about Gutternipe in burn/RDW?
Quote0:13:51 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi plays Invincible Hymn from Hand
0:14:25 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi's life total is now 221 (+213)

GoblinPiledriver

#36
Oh, Rest in Peace doesn't cycle itself(thought it does so)!(again i read a card wrong)
Being a legendary creature is a big problem, there are enough Karakas in Highlander. Expedition Map, Knight of the Reliquary, Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying (even Demonic Tutor) leads to Karakas. So for a 6 Mana creature being legendary is a bigger problem than for a one mana legendary Isamaru.  
Guttersnipe could be played in RDW or Burn but I don't know if it is really durable to shot enough damage.
Throw enough goblins at any problem and it should go away. At the very least, there'll be fewer goblins.

Tiggupiru

#37
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 05-10-2012, 08:44:25 PM
Abrupt Decay             5,0/5
The best card in set. It's more than a glorified Smother, it kills nearly every nonland permanent with only 2 mana.

Too bad every nonland permanent doesn't include: Titans, Wurmcoil, Sower of Temptation, Baneslayer, Restoration Angel, FTK, or Planeswalkers. As in, pretty much all those things you actually lose to.

It's still good, and certainly not a bad card, but the fact that Smother hasn't seen play in years should tell you that this isn't a five out of five deal. You probably play it in most Green-Black decks, but it's not even an auto-inclusion in decks that can support the mana. For example, Pattern doesn't want this. They want flexibility and this doesn't provide it.

You still underrate the Jace. It's a very good card. Imagine a very common scenario: Control plays couple of removals/counters and drops this on turn four against two 2/2's. Control uses +1 ability and aggro attacks it down to three loyalty. On the next turn you have an option to dig for a sweeper and should you find it, you still have a planeswalker for them to worry about. Another +1 will give you plenty of time. If you have your own creatures, the +1 is even stronger since you can just eat their 2/2's with you Trinket Mages if they would attack.

Jace is actually a perfect replacement for Fact or Fiction (which is not even a very good card right now), since it also pretty much wins against an empty board: The second ability is very powerful. It's also way better than FoF if you are behind.

You also underrate Azorius Charm. Time Ebb for two mana is powerful tempo gain in early game and it also cycles if needed. Lifelink I haven't used yet, but I could see that being nice way to get off the burn range in the late game. I have been impressed by this card.

Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMDeathrite Shaman requires you to load up on fetchlands, which makes it slightly unreliable mana elf with an upside.

You do realize it eats from each graveyard right? So it's a pretty reliable mana elf, graveyard hater and win condition during board stalls. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMHow do you feel about Gutternipe in burn/RDW?

It sometimes feels too slow even for limited play. I don't like it.

Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMHow is Niv-Mizzet's legendary status a problem? I can only think of Karakas and that doesn't turn up that often.

Phantasmal Image and Phyrexian Metamorph.


@random cards:

Gatecreeper Vine - I actually like this guy in Pattern. A NOable (not so noble, though) body that fixes, shuffles and generates mild CA.

Centaur Healer - Another guy to the Pattern. This is a much needed upgrade to Loxodon Hierarch, which I was forced to play from time to time. Nice to see that is in the past. Better than any of the baloths as well, provided the mana isn't an issue. Obviously not better than Finks, but Finks is pretty retarded.

Martial Law - Was too slow. I figured it might be, but still somewhat sad to see a card not good enough. The fact that every creature has a window to activate their abilities before you reissue the detainment was the last nail to the coffin.

Rest in Peace - Also comboes with Energy Field. They unbanned Enlightened? I smell a deck brewing.

Mana Bloom - Gets all kinds of bad rep, but all I see a repeated card draw in Enchantress. Too cute? Probably. Am I going to try anyway? You betcha.

Armada Wurm - Six mana 10/10 Trample has to be good somewhere. Even when there are all those Titans roaming the lands. I can see this being better than Sun Titan in some decks.

Nastaboi

Quote from: Tiggupiru on 05-10-2012, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMDeathrite Shaman requires you to load up on fetchlands, which makes it slightly unreliable mana elf with an upside.

You do realize it eats from each graveyard right? So it's a pretty reliable mana elf, graveyard hater and win condition during board stalls. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

I have been wrong with my evaluations before (most notably Mental Misstep), so I have to try it out.

Quote
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMHow do you feel about Gutternipe in burn/RDW?

It sometimes feels too slow even for limited play. I don't like it.

I thought so, but wanted an opinion from someone who actually played with the card.

Quote
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMHow is Niv-Mizzet's legendary status a problem? I can only think of Karakas and that doesn't turn up that often.

Phantasmal Image and Phyrexian Metamorph.

Right, these two are actually relevant. I really get to play some cards for a change if I forget essentials like that.
Quote0:13:51 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi plays Invincible Hymn from Hand
0:14:25 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi's life total is now 221 (+213)

tonytahiti

just to give you something to think about (aka next level all jace haters): jace IS fact or faction.

ok of course not literally but look at it this way:

what is fact or fiction, its most likely a 3 and a 2 card pile.

so when jace does the mini fact (a 2 and a 1 card pile) you get either 2 cards + jace in play(3 cards) or 1 card + jace in play (2 cards). it is a sorcery fact or fiction cause JACE IS IN PLAY AND IS A CARD!

think about it. its true. good night, all.
Winner - Pro HL Cup, Prague 2002
Winner - Highlander Regional Masters, Phuket 2006
Winner - Sunrise Trophy Run, Hawaii 2006
Winner - North Dakota HL Championships 2007
Winner - Tahiti "One And Only"-Cup #3, 2009
Winner - Gio di Gio Seria, Florenz, 2016
Winner - Jail or be Jailed, Berlin, 2017

Tiggupiru

Quote from: Nastaboi on 06-10-2012, 12:37:12 AM
Quote from: Tiggupiru on 05-10-2012, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMDeathrite Shaman requires you to load up on fetchlands, which makes it slightly unreliable mana elf with an upside.

You do realize it eats from each graveyard right? So it's a pretty reliable mana elf, graveyard hater and win condition during board stalls. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

I have been wrong with my evaluations before (most notably Mental Misstep), so I have to try it out.

I am probably overrating it a little bit, but we shall see. Initial testing has been very promising, though.

Quote
Quote
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMHow do you feel about Gutternipe in burn/RDW?

It sometimes feels too slow even for limited play. I don't like it.

I thought so, but wanted an opinion from someone who actually played with the card.

Fair enough. I do have some experience from it league play, which is closer to block constructed than limited and if it's something I rather not play out my hand most of time there (in an aggressive deck), it does not bode well for highlander. My reasoning most of the time is the following: I need to use this burn spell right now to get some damage through with the guys I have in play and oozing a relatively small amount of value isn't often enough. If the board is empty, I rather play just a bigger guy. Major difference between that format and HL burn is that burn is actually lot cheaper here, Annihilating Fire sometimes only cost like one mana in this format!

But yeah, for Guttersnipe to be better than straight four to the face, you need to cast three spells while it's in play or two spells and get one hit in with it. I don't see that happening often enough.

I am fine if somebody proves me wrong, though.

berlinballz

#41
Hey everyone,
so many set-reviews and still people underrate cards like the new Jace completely  :D
I find it very intriguing to again see, that great playskill and the skill to evaluate cards quickly, seem to be
two skillsets that don't necessarily correlate, especially regarding cards that aren't so obvious.

I'll just post my contribution as a Top 10 of RTR-cards, which i think will have the most impact in tier one highlander-decks.

My Top 10, no order:

Jace, Architect of Thought: I believe every deck running blue with four-drops will eventually play this card.
Supreme Verdict: This card is a U/W-Control staple if i've ever seen one.
Deathrite Shaman: Any deck with fetch-lands and access to green is probably going to have to play this, as it beats rector and does "a few" more things.
Loxodon Smiter: G/W-Aggro staple, likely better than Woolly Thoctar.
Azorius Charm: Probably another U/W-Control staple, who cares about the lifelink thing?! Very good card!
Abrupt Decay: Uncounterable everything-removal. Will probably see less play than Deathrite Shaman though.
Izzet Charm: Not many decks can support it mana-whise, but those who can, will.
Ash Zealot: RDW will run this.
Detention Sphere: Who doesn't play Oblivion Ring – with two-for-one-potential?!
Dreadbore: Solid removal. It's R/B...but still.

tonytahiti

i scrolled through the list of goblinpildedrivers evaluation, saw jace at 2,7 and azorius charm at 1,3 (and gatecreeper vine at 2,6!) and then stopped reading :)
Winner - Pro HL Cup, Prague 2002
Winner - Highlander Regional Masters, Phuket 2006
Winner - Sunrise Trophy Run, Hawaii 2006
Winner - North Dakota HL Championships 2007
Winner - Tahiti "One And Only"-Cup #3, 2009
Winner - Gio di Gio Seria, Florenz, 2016
Winner - Jail or be Jailed, Berlin, 2017

ChristophO


I laughed about the diffuse scale with 100! different strength evaluations. 5 Are probably enough to evaluate for a single format. But 2,1/5. Really? Why isnt it 2,2 or 2,0 then? This is just making up numbers for the heck of it.

1) unplayable
2) honorable mentions
3) roleplayer in certain deck
4) strong
5) absolute staple


coldcrow

I played with a few cards a bit, so my evaluation:

New Jace is obv. not as good as JtMS, but still very good and should replace FoF like already mentioned. What makes it so good is that it creates board presence and if empty you get to see 6 new cards which is huge. the +1 ability fits especially well for aggro-control.

Cyclonic Rift is a nice tool for RUG ramp.

Deathrite shaman is the bees knees. That guy is really good. so you basically have a slightly unreliable manadork who can: disrupt the GY, gain life and can threaten to kill a player over time. On top of it it survives a ping. Powerlevel is kind of absurd imho.