Cephalid Druid

[Aubrey]

Hi,

to stop this section from dying I'll present my approach on the Cephalid Illusionist/ Hermit Druid Combo. Some years ago I played Cephalid in Legacy and earned some good results. Therefore I like the Combo and try to come to a competitive deck.
In today's meta we fight against lots of aggro decks spiced with some amount of lets say rock decks. Control has just disappeard or is too weak to beat the aggro decks. To get a good Combo deck in this meta I will try to focus on a fast Combo which is capable playing against removal and a small amount of GY Hate (Scavenging Ooze).
My inspiration was taken from Tabris and his column on magic universe (Thanks for that). If you don't know how the combo works (http://www.magicuniverse.de/html/kolumnen.php?tempid=420.280.545.304.73&id=2093) So I will start with his list and mark some notes:

Länder
1 Bayou
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 City of Brass
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool (I think the deck wants to evolve its mana [testing Forbidden Orchard])
1 River of Tears
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Temple Garden
1 Twilight Mire
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold (The manabase is so squishy that I think this card is too greedy)
1 Watery Grave
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Underground River
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Mox Diamond

Kreaturen
1 Hermit Druid
1 Necrotic Ooze (Don't know if you really need the Ooze Combo)
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 The Mimeoplasm (Better killoptions out there)
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Shuko
1 Cephalid Illusionist
1 Fatestitcher
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Shaman en-Kor
1 Nomads en-Kor
1 Rotting Rats
1 Snapcaster Mage (good card but not for this deck)
1 Spellskite
1 Narcomoeba
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Trinket Mage (Tutor for Shuko and Top is this enough?)
1 Eternal Witness

Sprüche
1 Sylvan Library
1 Brainstorm
1 Dispel
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbidden Alchemy (Expensive )
1 Force of Will
1 Frantic Search (Carddisadvantage)
1 Impulse
1 Intuition
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Mental Misstep (maybe this should be a Daze)
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Teachings (CC 4 and no tutor for the combo)
1 Noxious Revival
1 Pact of Negation
1 Shallow Grave
1 Shred Memory
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Careful Study (Carddisadvantage)
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Buried Alive
1 Dread Return
1 Duress
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Living Death (necessary?)
1 Maelstrom Pulse (expensive but universal solution)
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Reanimate
1 Regrowth
1 Rhystic Tutor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate (expensive but universal solution)
1 AEther Vial
1 Memory's Journey

This were my first thoughts on the list. So I searched other cards to include which fit better to the plan of a fast combo deck. Cards I wanted to include were:

Sylvan Tutor
Grim Tutor
Dimir Infiltrator
Vedalken Aethermage
Cruel Tutor
Diabolic Vision
Portent

Path to Exile
Chain of Vapor

Lotus Petal
Chrome Mox

And I changed the killoption to Angel of Glory's Rise, Laboratory Maniac and Hapless Researcher. This because with Grand Abolisher in the deck the combo is better protected and the Hapless Researcher isn't dead if drawn.

So I came up with this list:

Länder
1 Bayou
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 City of Brass
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 River of Tears
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Temple Garden
1 Twilight Mire
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold (Still there but I don't like it any suggestions?)
1 Watery Grave
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Underground River
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Mox Diamond

Kreaturen
1 Hermit Druid
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Hapless Researcher
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Shuko
1 Cephalid Illusionist
1 Fatestitcher
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Shaman en-Kor
1 Nomads en-Kor
1 Rotting Rats
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Spellskite
1 Narcomoeba
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Trinket Mage (Good with Aethermage)
1 Eternal Witness
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Vedalken Aethermage

Sprüche
1 Sylvan Library
1 Brainstorm
1 Dispel
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Force of Will
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Impulse
1 Intuition
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Daze
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Grim Tutor
1 Noxious Revival
1 Pact of Negation
1 Shallow Grave
1 Shred Memory
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Buried Alive
1 Dread Return
1 Duress
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Path to Exile
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Reanimate
1 Regrowth
1 Rhystic Tutor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate
1 AEther Vial
1 Memory's Journey

At this point I would want to start the discussion. What killturn do you think we should aim for? Is turn four ok or shall we try to get a good probability for a turn three kill?

[MMD]

Here´s another deck list for your inspiration: http://www.magicplayer.org/forum/index.php?topic=834.0

[ChristophO]

Would you mind explaining how the Lab Maniac kill vial Angel of Glory's Rise is better protected than Mimeoplasm kill? In both cases you do not care about spot removal but fold to countered dread return or grave hate?

[Aubrey]

First the Combo parts in the Angel kill aren't dead draws (Hapless Researcher can be "cycled"). Second as Grand Abolisher is reanimated too you just have to care for stifle. Third it's more secure against infinite life, Solitary Confinement and stuff like that. For now I couldn't find one situation where the Mimeoplasm was superior to the Angel. Maybe I'm just wrong and you can convince me.

@MMD: Thx for the suggestion. As the deck has a really squishy manabase I'm not a fan of the Silence effects. What do you think isn't it better to handle threats EOT with removal/bounce or play discard against control?

[ChristophO]

Redcap and Lord of extinction arent dead cards either. I agree on Solitary confinement and infinite life, but have never encountered this problem yet. Regarding Dead cards: Redcap and Lord of extinction as well as the mimeoplasm are powerful cards on their own in many games. I believe angel and and Lab. Maniac are dead way more often. Grand abolisher will be dead because of mana requirements, so this is why I much prefer the Mimeoplasm kill.

But you keep on repeating that you only loose to Stifle because of Grand Abolisher. Mimeoplasm also only looses to stifle as spot removal does not stop the trigger on stack (which will use last known information for Power if Mimeoplasm is killed in response to the copied Redcap trigger).

Regarding your other comments:
Yes, Trinket mage is worth it (+ he can find fast artifact mana).
Necrotic Ooze is awesome in this deck to copy Hermit Druid's activated ability, too. 

[MMD]

@MMD: Thx for the suggestion. As the deck has a really squishy manabase I'm not a fan of the Silence effects. What do you think isn't it better to handle threats EOT with removal/bounce or play discard against control?

I would go with a mix to have outs for every game state

But maximum discard would be the way to go for me as knowing opponents hand is huge.

With Oozes everywhere I would definately play Abeyance.

[Aubrey]

Redcap and Lord of extinction arent dead cards either. I agree on Solitary confinement and infinite life, but have never encountered this problem yet. Regarding Dead cards: Redcap and Lord of extinction as well as the mimeoplasm are powerful cards on their own in many games. I believe angel and and Lab. Maniac are dead way more often. Grand abolisher will be dead because of mana requirements, so this is why I much prefer the Mimeoplasm kill.

But you keep on repeating that you only loose to Stifle because of Grand Abolisher. Mimeoplasm also only looses to stifle as spot removal does not stop the trigger on stack (which will use last known information for Power if Mimeoplasm is killed in response to the copied Redcap trigger).

K, I will give Redcap Plasm some testgames. Maybe I'm really wrong. I think I just like the way on not trying to harm the lifepoints of my opponent. But I will see ^^. Thx for your suggestions.

Maybe I post an updated list tomorrow.

[Aubrey]

Hi,

I tested yesterday against some decks and came to a new list. I switched my orientation to the list MMK suggested. I cut the Necrotic Ooze Combo because there is no need for another GY based Combo with more dead cards. The testing showed that the Mimeoplasm Combo is maybe superior to the fact that you get the abolisher space.

1 Hermit Druid
1 Cephalid Illusionist
1 Shaman en-Kor
1 Nomads en-Kor
3 Combo Creatures
1 Fatestitcher
1 Narcomoeba
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Vedalken Aethermage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Spellskite
1 Eternal Witness

1 Shred Memory
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Rhystic Tutor
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Sylvan Library
1 Diabolic Vision
1 Intuition
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Portent
1 Ponder
1 Lim Dûl's Vault
1 Preordain
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Brainstorm
1 Regrowth
1 Impulse
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Duress
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Silence
1 Orim's Chant
1 Abeyance
1 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Dispel
1 Spell Pierce
1 Pact of Negation
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Aether Vial
1 Memory's Jorney
1 Reanimate
1 Noxious Revival
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Dread Return
1 Shuko
1 Shallow Grave
1 Grim Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact

1 Tundra
1 Taiga
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Plateau
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Steam Vents
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Arid Mesa
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine


So in a next step I would switch the kill to the Mimeoplasm. Then there are those Silence effects. Abeyance is the only one I would keep. The CC of 2 combined with the ability to negate Crypt effects is what convinced me.
What are your thoughts? Maybe some cards I could cut or miss?

[carte_blanche]

Interesting that you consider to remove Silence and Chant... I'm running a deck without these cards and after some testmatches, I'm about to think which cards to kick out of the deck to play these two.

As far as I experienced the few testmatches, instant removal is the greater problem compared to graveyard hate. Here the Silence-effects would help. However, I'm playing a slower list of the deck with a lot more removal in order to get rid of the omnipresent Scavenging Ooze. Therefore I was never disrupted by that card but I don't know if that applies for your list as well.

I consider Stifle to be quite a problem since it ruins the whole combo. Therefore, I'm playing a backup storm kill via Yawgmoth's Will but that eats up a lot of space in the deck...

@Trinket Mage Toolbox:
Executioner's Capsule - handy if you need a creature removal and don't got one ready

Engineered Explosives - against fast aggro decks with many creatures but playing with four colors one is able to kill even more expansive threats. It buys me the time to kill protected against aggro (tested against RDW (horrible matchup) and Elves).

Pithing Needle - ruins most of the currently played graveyard hate (except for Shred Memory)

Top + Shuko (obviously)


@Mimeoplasm kill: Playing Rotting Rats, I never faced greater problems with that variant. Moreover you got a big beater (Lord of Extinction) if something goes horribly wrong -> sometimes I was forced to bash my opponent with that one.

Decklist can be found here, but I've not tested the deck thoroughly and there are some cards missing (due to budget reasons: Polluted Delta, Scrubland, Bayou, Thoughtseize).

[pyyhttu]

I have documented a build that went 5-1 in one tournament back in the summer: http://iki.fi/~pyyhttu/magic/highlander/hermit_druid_combo.txt

I hope it gives you some insights.

Some random thoughts:

-I wouldn't pack in Shuko/Kor/Illusionist combo, as it's essentially a loose and clunky three-piece combo, plus easily disturbed. In my opinion this deck should be built so that the 1-card combo of Hermit Druid is taken on the edge and forced into play (using hand disruption and grave animation).

-I'd also question the kill package of Mimeoplasm/Redcap/Lord of Extinction as the pieces alone are don't do much in this deck (plus are costly). I'd prefer Guide/Kiki-Jiki/Exarch.

[Aubrey]

Sorry, it took some time as I wasn't in town. I did some testing with the updated list.

@carte_blanche: I think you can't survive a long lasting game either it's against aggro or control. Aggro simply sets you a clock which is around the 6th turn. Sometimes even the 5th. Control will get more and more protection in the same time. I think a slower gameplan is only playable if you put the combo into a shell to work as a hybrid. Compared to Pattern Rector were the combo is part of some kind of rock deck. So Pattern has the chance to slow aggro and beat control even without having the combo up. For this deck maybe a reanimator shell would be interesting as you would have a strong aggro matchup and can pressure control while setting up the combo.

Therefore I feel like playing Druid turn 3 or Cephalid+2nd part turn 4 is the only chance to win as a pure combodeck. This means that we have just 1 mana more than needed to play the combopieces. This is why I wasn't able to get a stable deck right now. You get games were your opponent is dead turn 3 without even knowing what he could have done to prevent this. On the other hand there are games where you play like one or two cards and die like your opponent just goldfished.

@pyyhttu: Thx for the link, some interesting thoughts. One thing, Cephalid is a two card combo which wins the turn it is played. While testing I felt more and more that the longer the game runs the more you want the Cephalid. The combo costs 3 mana total and so it's "safe". The Druid needs Greaves to get haste so it's 4 mana and one mana to activate 5 mana. The other option is to play and protect the Druid.

I came to the conclusion, that all killoptions are clumsy and you don't want to draw them so the best one I think is the one that works with the lowest amount of cards. As all use 3 it's your choice and meta depended what you take. Every kill has it's pros and cons.


For now I see two different ways:
1. Get more mana acceleration in form of elves or Guides or whatever. So you can tutor turn 2 with the 3 mana tutors. Then kill turn 4-5.

2. Accept that you are (like in modern or type 2) slower than aggro and have to have a major plan for aggro and combo is just a sidekick. Maybe reanimator...

Is it possible to come to 60% against aggro? What so you think?