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Author Topic: TPS    (Read 4358 times)
coldcrow
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TPS
« on: 31-08-2012, 03:28:22 AM »

Most of you know my favourite petdeck: Storm. The following list is tested quite thoroughly and derives alot of its power from the potential unbanning of LED.

Lands (31):
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Mishra's Workshop
1 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Great Furnace
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Peat Bog
1 Saprazzan Skerry
1 Sandstone Needle


Artifact Mana:
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Bloom
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Opal
1 Grim Monolith
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Izzet Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Coalition Relic
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Mind Stone

Rituals / Other Mana:
1 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
1 Desperate Ritual
1 Seething Song
1 Manamorphose
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Rain of Filth
1 Mana Drain
1 Rite of Flame

Cards Which Win:
1 Mind's Desire
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Past in Flames

Win Conditions:
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grapeshot
1 Mana Severance
1 Goblin Charbelcher

Tutors:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Rhystic Tutor
1 Personal Tutor
1 Intuition
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Tainted Pact
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Perplex
1 Merchant Scroll

Draw 7:
1 Windfall
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Timetwister
1 Time Spiral
1 Memory Jar

Other Library Manipulation:
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Gush
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Frantic Search
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Meditate
1 Impulse
1 Sleight of Hand

Protection / Utility:
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Pact of Negation
1 Overmaster
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Remand
1 Repeal
1 Lightning Bolt

Alot of cards are autoincludes. Cards which could find a way in and did at some point: noxious revival, snapcaster, IGG, sins of the past. IGG is more or less superceded by Past in Flames, but still is a serious contender. Sins of the Past is only worthwhile targetting Spiral or Mind's Desire.
In this list I took out the aformentioned cards to make space for an alternate kill in the way of Severance/Belcher, which is sometimes easier to attain than 10 storm. Also a resolved Severance with 3-4 lands in play is quite good. But if testing doesn't prove the merits of this, it's easy to change back and get revival/snap/IGG.
Another card I am on the fringe about is Lotus Bloom. In the starthand it is godlike increasing the chances for a successful T3 win by a large margin. But any turn after it is often just dead.

In the past I experimented with a 4-5c version sporting silence effects, regrowth, crop rotation (as mini ritual getting workshop/city of traitors) and such, but the problems with the manabase made me discard that idea.

Last but not least this list can easily include more basics if you run across much nonbasic hate, but Tainted pact would have to go then.

I welcome any costructive criticism and advices about the deck.
« Last Edit: 31-08-2012, 03:31:53 AM by coldcrow » Logged
MMD
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« Reply #1 on: 31-08-2012, 12:53:24 PM »

Thanks for this topic. I have also planned to build a TPS for a long time but never did this because of my expectation of missing speed and stability. With TPS being your pet deck, I am just a Padavan here, but I think it is useful to take a look from an unexploited perspective as well. The following things are just out of my mind, without any practical experience at all:

Sulfur Vent, Ancient Spring, Ebon Stronghold, Svyelunite Temple > Depletion Lands (more stable> less broken?)
Grim Tutor > Rhystic Tutor (more stable)
Empty the Warrens > Grapeshot  (lower storm count required)
Fire/Ice > Lightning Bolt (flexibility)

don’t likes/fringe cards in your list: Charbelcher/Severance (I don’t think it’s necessary. Perhaps Future Sight can do it with Helm & Top already in the deck), Mishras Workshop (not enough artifacts IMO), Gilded Lotus (too expensive?), Overmaster (not stable enough), artifact lands/Mox Opal (better then other Cipt lands?), Perplex, Muddle the Mixture (both quite slow and unstable IMO), Lotus Bloom (too unstable), Mind Stone (non-exiting)

Mayboard: Snapcaster Mage, Noxious Revival, IGG – as you mentioned – but also: Vendilion Clique, Faithless Looting, Transmute Artifact, Peek, Strategic Planning, Nights Whisper, Misdirection, Spell Pierce, Tolaria West (LED, Pact)

It looks like the “golden” mana cost is 4 in this deck as you can reliable cast them on turn 3 and sometimes turn 2. Therefore the following cards could be put into good use, even if they do not look very TPSish:
Jace 2.0, Mystical Teachings, Trinket Mage(Top), Careful Consideration, Concentrate, Foresee, Nightmare Void,

Outsourcing theme: Urza´s Bauble, Mishra´s Bauble, Chromatic Sphere, Darkwater Egg, Shadowblood Egg,
Mana alternatives: Pentad Prism, Everflowing Chalice, Gemstone Mine, City of Brass
Fringe: Twiddle, Dream’s Grip, Opt, Turnabout, Infernal Tutor
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« Reply #2 on: 31-08-2012, 12:55:34 PM »

Otherwise looks solid, but I'd have to challenge that lone Lightning Bolt. I reckon it's to deal the last damages or to clean problematic creatures... or did you have some other plans for it?

And: With this much fast mana, have you considered any sort of Doomsday kill, especially as you already pack Lion's Eye Diamond?
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coldcrow
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« Reply #3 on: 31-08-2012, 01:27:27 PM »

The Depletion lands are only for testing purposes, originally I just ran basics. Perplex/Muddle are replacements for Grim Tutor, the lifeloss was unsustainable in some cases.
Future Sight is sometimes hard to cast and not tutorable (transmute), also doesn't do alot on its own for the cost of 5. But I tried it too few times to be totally sure. I'd rather play Spellweaver Volute.
Empty the Warrens is also a so-so, basically it loses alot of power T2-T4. Decks can race it or have answers if it doesn't get played very early.
Lightning Bolt is a good spell to reduce stormcount and randomly kill problematic creatures (teeg,censor).
Workshop is just too broken to not play it imho, but yea. Jace, Teachings and other 4 mana spells just do too few.
Eggs+Baubles: would increase the reliance on will, without doing anything themselves (no academy).
Pentad Prism is a card I totally forgot, could replace Mind stone.
Transmute Artifact is also an oversight, accidentally took it out it seems.
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Topas
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« Reply #4 on: 31-08-2012, 03:55:22 PM »

Kudos for a noncreature deck!

Could you please tell something more about your experience with the deck? What turn is it able to consistently go off? Could you tell something to the deck's matchups? Is it viable in today's meta?

Thanks
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« Reply #5 on: 03-09-2012, 07:27:20 PM »

+1 for a TES decklist in HL!

I was tinkering with a similar list myself the last weeks but never managed it to create a very constant list that was sufficiently fast to beat hard aggro decks (fizzeled too often)... so I appreciate your input very much. However, I suspect that I lack the needed skills to pilot such a deck at the moment; that might be another reason for my underwhelming results.

In any case: Could you explain a bit how you try to run your deck? In my build I tried to abuse Mind's Desire to find more fuel for the storm engine so I even included Ethereal Usher and Netherborn Phalanx to find either Mind's Desire, Sins of the Past or Time Spiral. But that approach might not be a good plan at all... anyone with experience (coldcrow)?

There might be some cards from the latest editions (and the upcoming new Ravnica set).

First of all there is Arcane Melee I thought about... one is already playing Helm of Awakening. On the other hand that spell is maybe too expansive to play it pre-combo. -> Likely not the best spell.

Two new cards (SPOILER-warning):

Gutterspine; 2/2 2R - Goblin Shaman
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, Gutterspine deals 2 damage to each opponent.

For a storm-kill without needing a storm card. Even the mana cost is not too high. The main disadvantage about this card may be: It's a creature. Since the opponent's creature removal is pretty dead against your deck, it will accumulate in her / his hand and most likely get this guy.


Goblin Electromancer UR 2/2
Instant and sorcery spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.

A Helm of Awakening just for you? Seems decent. However, the same arguments I pointed out writing about his goblin-brother apply here as well. On the other hand... maybe the opponent will spoil away the creature removal in game 2 and 3...

Would be glad to hear some opinions and maybe some strategy...


Cheers!


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coldcrow
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« Reply #6 on: 06-09-2012, 09:58:43 PM »

I cut severance/belcher/Jace and added green for tinder wall/regrowth/crop rot to increase the density of rituals. Seems to increase the overall stability.

-severance
-belcher
-mind stone
-lit bolt
-perplex
-muddle
-overmaster
-lotus bloom

+regrowth
+noxious rev.
+tinder wall
+crop rot
+grim tutor
+transmute art.
+snapcaster
+pentad prism

and changes to the manabase aswell.


The plan is pretty linear. You build up as much mana as possible, while trying to a) sculpt a hand b) gaining information about the opponent.
Actual lines of play:
- yawgwill + led + tutor
- past of flames + ritual GY
- IGG + rituals/LED + tutor
- Mind's Desire > 6 (even that is very low-ish)
- draw 7 + LED
- chain of vapor + mox
- remand + mox
- repeal + mox

Basically you wait until the last possible moment to amass ressources (cards/mana) then try to maximize your chances of generating a sufficient amount of storm + finding the necessary cards to do that and win.

In the starthand you want to see:
- artifact mana
- tutors
- library manipulation
OR/AND
- rituals/LED
- draw 7/yawgwill

+ lands ofc.

Arcane Melee costs just too much, especially when most of the rotuals cost only 1 colourless.
Guttersnipe/Electromancer/Arcane belong in a different deck imho, some kind of R/U.

EDIT: About experiences (maybe useful for the council aswell):

It can go off reliably turn 4-5. Randomly turn 3 wins, those are rare though.
LED + the draw7s or recursion engines is VERY good, basically the main line of play, although there were alot of wins without it.
I'd say it is a tier 1-1.5 deck since it asks the opponent if he can interact with the stack/GY/artifacts or just win by turn 4.
Compared to Dreamhalls it runs less uncastable cards but has more difficult lines of play and is easier to disrupt.
« Last Edit: 07-09-2012, 12:25:50 AM by coldcrow » Logged
Dreamer
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« Reply #7 on: 07-09-2012, 02:28:56 AM »

So, a question that started bugging me: Why no Necro, why no Bargain?
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MMD
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« Reply #8 on: 07-09-2012, 01:27:24 PM »

EDIT: About experiences (maybe useful for the council aswell):

It can go off reliably turn 4-5. Randomly turn 3 wins, those are rare though.
LED + the draw7s or recursion engines is VERY good, basically the main line of play, although there were alot of wins without it.
I'd say it is a tier 1-1.5 deck since it asks the opponent if he can interact with the stack/GY/artifacts or just win by turn 4.
Compared to Dreamhalls it runs less uncastable cards but has more difficult lines of play and is easier to disrupt.

Even without any tests from my side I would also value TPS w/LED as Tier 1.5 deck. There are too many hate creatures around (Clique, Archmage, Mindcensor, Ooze...) which are capable to fight the storm strategy. Also aggro has a reasonable clock. It just gets problematic IF Wizards would print more Rituals in future and it could become Tier 1 IF the council would ban the creature tutors. It would be nice to have such a deck around for a season to get more experiences with it and fight those boring good stuff midrange strategies. If somethings goes wrong there will be no problem to ban LED again.

Regarding your green splash: Is it really worth the investment? I mean Tinder Wall, Regrowth and Crop Rotation are not the hottest cards on earth for this deck. Why not just use an off colour Noxious Revival and play some of the fillers which fit best to your strategy (e.g. Clique, Baubles, Peek...). You can keep the 2 mana lands in you deck, then.


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« Reply #9 on: 26-10-2012, 07:41:15 PM »

After some testing and looking at other lists, I realized that the artifact mana approach is quite clunky and can be easily disrupted by the host of etb-creatures.

So, Kobolds:

Kobolds:
1 Shield Sphere
1 Ornithopter
1 Kobolds of Kher Keep
1 Crimson Kobolds
1 Crookshank Kobolds
1 Memnite
1 Phyrexian Walker
1 Wild Cantor
1 Snapcaster Mage

Rituals:
1 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
1 Seething Song
1 Desperate Ritual
1 Rite of Flame
1 Rain of Filth
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Infernal Plunge
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Grim Monolith
1 Culling the Weak

Tutors:
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Intuition
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Rhystic Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Personal Tutor

Protection:
1 Defense Grid
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Overmaster
1 Arcane Denial
1 Pact of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Remand
1 Repeal

Kill:
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens

Draw7:
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Time Spiral

Library Manipulation:
1 Frantic Search
1 Gush
1 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Faithless Looting
1 Mana Severance
1 Mind's Desire
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Portent

Storm:
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Past in Flames

Lands(32):
1 Badlands
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Steam Vents
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
6 Island
3 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Graven Cairns
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Drowned Catacomb

This list has many advantages besides being less suceptible to disruption. More Rituals and 0 Mana dudes make it easier to reach a high Stormcount, more protection and tutors.

Edit: 2 minor corrections
- swamp
- mana severance
+ merchant scroll
+ snap

After losing quite alot to censor, this really wants more outs versus problematic creatures.

Edit #2:

- Mind's Desire
- Faithless Looting
+ Manamorphose
+ Impulse

Desire is just "worse" in here. Instead of playing free Thran Dynamos, there are Kobolds to play for free.
Looting didn't impress me, digging deeper for a critical spell is likely better.
« Last Edit: 01-11-2012, 05:07:42 AM by coldcrow » Logged
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