An approach to classic control in Esper

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

I recently tinkered with a control deck to see if it's viable. This deck is not yet optimized, there are quite some suboptimal card choices but I decided to post it anyway.

// Lands
   1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
   1 [UL] Faerie Conclave
   1 [MOR] Mutavault
   1 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit
   1 [WWK] Celestial Colonnade
   1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
   1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
   1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
   1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
   1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
   1 [ON] Flooded Strand
   1 [ON] Windswept Heath
   1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
   1 [ON] Polluted Delta
   1 Underground Sea
   1 Tundra
   1 Scrubland
   1 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
   1 [RAV] Watery Grave
   1 [TE] Wasteland
   1 [MM] Dust Bowl
   1 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
   3 Island (1)
   3 Island (3)
   4 Island (2)
   1 [LG] Karakas
   1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
   1 [DK] Maze of Ith

// Creatures
   1 [ROE] Wall of Omens
   1 [JGC] Vendilion Clique
   1 [FD] Trinket Mage
   1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
   1 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
   1 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
   1 [OD] Shadowmage Infiltrator

// Spells
   1 [FUT] Logic Knot
   1 Counterspell
   1 [NE] Daze
   1 [WL] Disrupt
   1 [ON] Complicate
   1 [HL] Memory Lapse (1)
   1 [UL] Miscalculation
   1 [RAV] Muddle the Mixture
   1 [EX] Forbid
   1 [LG] Mana Drain
   1 [FUT] Pact of Negation
   1 [MM] Misdirection
   1 [AL] Force of Will
   1 [PS] Dromar's Charm
   1 [LRW] Cryptic Command
   1 [NPH] Mental Misstep
   1 [FD] Condescend
   1 [RAV] Remand
   1 [ZEN] Day of Judgment
   1 [PLC] Damnation
   1 Wrath of God
   1 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
   1 [LRW] Jace Beleren
   1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
   1 [DKA] Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
   1 [TSP] Ancestral Vision
   1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
   1 [AP] Vindicate
   1 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
   1 [MBS] Go for the Throat
   1 [CFX] Path to Exile
   1 Swords to Plowshares
   1 [ROE] Consuming Vapors
   1 [NPH] Dismember
   1 [NE] Submerge
   1 [IN] Recoil
   1 Control Magic
   1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
   1 [UD] Treachery
   1 Demonic Tutor
   1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
   1 [VI] Impulse
   1 [LRW] Ponder
   1 [IA] Brainstorm
   1 [M11] Preordain
   1 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
   1 [FUT] Coalition Relic
   1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
   1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
   1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
   1 [MM] Bribery
   1 [MOR] Bitterblossom
   1 [SC] Stifle
   1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
   1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
   1 [M12] Timely Reinforcements
   1 [TE] Humility
   1 [LG] Moat


Cards on the watch list for a cut: Crucible of Worlds, Expedition Map, Coalition Relic, some of the counterspell choices.
Other Counterspell choices considered: Spellsnare, Forcespike, Mana Tithe, Remand, Spell Pierce, Deprive, Desertion, Dismiss, Remove Soul, Exclude, Flusterstorm.
Cards that may be viable in exchange: Lingering Souls.
Maybe Miracle cards? There are some strong choices for control, but with only one JTM and Brainstorm they are probably too random.

What do you think?

[tonytahiti]

stoneforge (+ small equipment package) is an absolute must. its like the main reason to go white anyways. especially the last few months, i feel that sword of fire and ice autowins tons of games, its THAT strong. then you need more creatures to hold that equipment. lingering souls is a MUST. its incredibly good. consider: bitterblossom, aven mindcensor (stronger than infiltrator), dungeon geists, spellskite (better than wall of omens not only cause it carries a sword), geist of saint traft, phantasmal image. the pure control approach will not work anymore, since creatures got too good and you cant out-card them with sweeper and draw spells. you gotta put questions on the table and not only have answers to what opponent is doing. you have access to great cards in esper (like lingering souls), make use of them.

[Tabris]

Indeed. One does not simply play Esper w/o Lingering Souls and Stoneforge Mystic.

[Doks]

In addition to what the users above me explained regarding creatures, I'd furthermore recommend you running the cheap countermagic you already took into consideration: Force Spike, Mana Tithe, Spell Pierce, Mental Misstep, Spell Snare. I'd cut Complicate (CC too high), Daze (I really dislike it in control shells, early land drops are so crucial) and Memory Lapse (it's not nearly as good as Remand when it comes to early tempo countermagic).

The non elder dragon competitive highlander magic format (read: the 'real' one ) has become freaking fast. Been loving and still love oldschool control, but it's not very viable these days. Nowadays, you want to survive the first 3/4 turns and then drop and protect your bombs.

I also dislike Moat. From my experience nearly every creature based deck has some creep with flying. They equip a sword to it and still beat you to death. Humility on the other hand is a great choice, especially vs. Goodstuff and midrange decks.

Adding a Mystical Tutor toolbox is especially attractive in Esper's colours. A single Disenchant and Diabolic Edict become much more valuable.


Last, but not least: Coalition Relic. In my opinion a single Mana stone doesn't make the cut. Either your run the full package (Talismans + Signets + Lens + Relic) and rely on accelerating from 2 into 4 mana or you just leave them all out. I prefered playing heavy stone acceleration until I added more and more creatures / lowered the average mana cost of my control decks.

You really don't want to drop a Signet and say 'go!' when the enemy is pressuring you. No, you rather want to throw Stoneforge Mystic in his face or Mana Leak his T3 drop.


In the end it comes down to preference how many creatures / cheaper spells you might add (maybe your deck fits your metagame quite good), but generally speaking this is the way to go nowadays if you intend to seriously play a control deck. Oldschool Draw-Go decks do not exist anymore.
   

[Nastaboi]

Mystical Tutor toolbox is so attractive that it has been banned for some years. Mystical Teachings works well, I even play Disenchant myself.

Stones are still good, you can play one turn three and have Leak mana up, or just run it out turn two if you have Wrath/Elspeth/Moat/Sower etc. Couple of more lands should be no harm, and instead of 10 islands you should have like 6 islands 3 plains 1 swamp as basics.

Finishers are also some good, Conscecrated Sphinx, Wurmcoil, Elesh Norn and black and white titans are ones to consider. Entreat the Angels is great, other miracles in color not.

[Doks]

Mystical Tutor toolbox is so attractive that it has been banned for some years. Mystical Teachings works well, I even play Disenchant myself.

Meh, it was late but I think it's pretty obvious I was suggesting Teachings and just mixed up those two.

[Nastaboi]

Meh, it was late but I think it's pretty obvious I was suggesting Teachings and just mixed up those two.

Sure thing, just fooling. I forgot Baneslayer, it's still some good while it dies to any removal. I don't play Humility any more, makes winning too difficult for yourself. Gideon seems also missing.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Thanks for all your replys. I tried to do some testing with this deck but sadly it's kind of hard to find highlander opponents on mws.

I did read all your comments and thought about them. I will still try to do this non creature based, you are probably right that SFM+BS should find it's way into this deck but I'm not quite ready for giving up yet

About some specific card choices:
I actually think Moat is great. Most goodstuff lists have 4-6 flyers, there is enough removal around for them.
How do you like Pact of Negotiation? I like it to protect your plainswalker drop, what do you think?
I was not aware of the instant speed of mystical teachings, EoT this could be a bomb. I will have to test it.
Is Gideon Jura really that great? I thought I'd rather have spot removal or a royal assasin...

I did some tinkering with the deck but as I said have not been able to playtest. Sower, Venser, Coalition Relic and Misdirection got cut for Lingering Souls, Spellsnare, Exclude, Dismiss (so more hardcounters for the win!).

Other nice little findings I'm planning to work in:

Peacekeeper
Porphyry Nodes
Sacred Mesa (maybe)
Ice Floe (maybe)
Entreat the Angels

[tonytahiti]

i like your enthusiasm. with the right configuration it still might work. the cards you mentioned are no good enough IMO, but if testing shows different, love to see new cards in this format. have fun testing.

[Nastaboi]

If I recall correctly, I have Omens, Mystic, Baleful, Snapcaster, Clique, Finks, Sower, Baneslayer, Wurmcoil, Sphinx, Elesh Norn as my creature base. Might miss something as I'm not home to check. What I'm trying to say is that creature light version is definitely doable, though I'm not entirely satisfied with my list. The new 3/2 flying lifelink could also make it.

From your last findings I'd play Entreat and stay away from the rest.

[Doks]

If I recall correctly, I have Omens, Mystic, Baleful, Snapcaster, Clique, Finks, Sower, Baneslayer, Wurmcoil, Sphinx, Elesh Norn as my creature base. Might miss something as I'm not home to check. What I'm trying to say is that creature light version is definitely doable, though I'm not entirely satisfied with my list. The new 3/2 flying lifelink could also make it.

From your last findings I'd play Entreat and stay away from the rest.

Quick follow up question: how does Stoneforge Mystic work out for you with only 11 creatures of which 3 are CC6+ ?

I'm currently playing around with a creature light version, too, and it's not uncommon that the sword is a dead card. I run 16 and none costs more than 5 mana. And running Mystic just for Batterskull only does not seem to be worth it.

[Nastaboi]

I play just Batterskull and it is worth it. If you really want to include a sword, add some manlands with activation cost 1.

[Ball.Lightning]

Hi,
I also play esper control and it is certainly creature light version. My list of heroes is Wall of Omens, Baleful Strix, Stroneforge Mystic, Snapcaster, Glena Aleandra, Baneslayer Angel, Bloodgift Demon, Batterskul, Wurmcoil engine, Consacrated Sphinx + Topter combo. My rule of thumb is that I do not run any creature, that does is not able to win on its own or provides CA. This is not the case of Kitchen Finkse, nor Vendelion Clique, nor Timely Reinforcements. Funny fact abou Stoneforge is, that it tutors Sword of the Meek alonside Batterskul.

Ball

[so_not]

Hi,
I also play esper control and it is certainly creature light version. My list of heroes is Wall of Omens, Baleful Strix, Stroneforge Mystic, Snapcaster, Glena Aleandra, Baneslayer Angel, Bloodgift Demon, Batterskul, Wurmcoil engine, Consacrated Sphinx + Topter combo. My rule of thumb is that I do not run any creature, that does is not able to win on its own or provides CA. This is not the case of Kitchen Finkse, nor Vendelion Clique, nor Timely Reinforcements. Funny fact abou Stoneforge is, that it tutors Sword of the Meek alonside Batterskul.

Ball

Wall of Omens does not produce card advantage but Kitchen Finks does. One also does not play esper (or pretty much any blue deck) without Vendilion Clique since it triples as disruption, removal and beat stick. I also think that Grave Titan is the ultimate finisher for these colors since it not only generates massive card advantage but is huge, advances your board position and is a two-turn clock. Problem with Consecrated Sphinx is that if you tap out and they kill it you are doomed and it's way harder to kill you sitting behind a Titan than with Sphinx. How has Bloodgift demon worked for you? It seems a bit lacking in power level.

Restoration Angel is also so unfair that I would fit in a couple more creatures just to get more value out of it. At least Shriekmaw should be played since it's a cheap removal but also good later. Blinking an evoked Mulldrifter with Angel is also sum good if not the fastest play Entreat the Angels is pretty sick and Miracle-engine in general is ok with Scroll Rack and Personal Tutor but it's way better in bant colors since you got Loam as support.

[Ball.Lightning]

Ok, sry I forgot to mention Grave Titan, he is obviously great and I play him + Mulldrifter as you mentioned. I dont have deck with me, so i forgot several cards.

On Wall of Omens: Omens comes down on turn 2, draws a card. On the other hand finks comes down whole turn later and you need double white(whitch can be huge in 3c deck). Omens has greater butt and save more lifes in progres than finkse. On turn 3 I want to make diferent stuff than to throw twigs on oponent. Omens is better in protecting PWs and is not semidead draw like finkse against control. Finkse will not kill anyone and if you want to wrath as soon as possible, you would wrath your creature as well. And concerning defense I prefere twodrop.

I am not trying to convince that finkse is bad card and that omens is better. But if you are pure kontrol = you are not going to atack for first 10 turns, finkse does not bring too much value. It shines in agrokontrol decks and even agro decks that can support it's manacost would propably use it.

On Sphinx: if you are behind, casting Sfinx will not save you. Sfinx shines when comes to an empty board as deciding "beater". Opponent will not always have removal for it ;-) and if they kill it - ok it is life...

On Bloodgift Demon: It depends on matchup of course, but I would rather cast Demon than BSA. It gives you what Phyrexian arena can't - clock. The fact, that you draw extra card + swings for 5 is huge. If your deck is full of interactive spells like discard, counter or disrupt, you can grind the oponent realy quickly.