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UR Combo-Control

Started by mithranin, 15-02-2012, 12:10:41 AM

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mithranin

Hi, I would like to get some feedback on a deck I've been working on for some time now. In theory, it is a Blue-Red Control with the options to win through combo, or just lock the opponent out of the game. So far I've played only one serious tournament with an older version of this deck, and while I was pretty comfortable playing it, I still felt like there are too many loose knots in the list.

As you can see from the deck, I emphasize on running pretty much only basic lands and fetchlands, because the number of free wins I can pick up from forcing through a Ruination or Back to Basics/Blood Moon effect is quite high. The Steam Vents is there just as stabilizer to be fetched with any of the fetchlands in the deck and Riptide Laboratory synergies way too well my Venser, Snapcaster, Chronarch, Glen Elendra and so on...

At this point I run both the Splinter Twin package, with a singleton Time Warp thrown into it, which can be used to achieve permalock with Chronarch every now and then, and the three-card Swans package as a win conditions.


So, here it is:

Lands: (38)
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Steam Vents
12 Mountain
17 Island

Creatures: (15)
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Gilded Drake
1 Swans of Bryn Argoll
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Pestermite
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Vedalken AEthermage
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir

Artifacts: (6)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Dimir Signet
1 Coalition Relic
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Izzet Signet
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Crystal Shard

Planeswalkers: (3)
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace Beleren
1 Tezzeret the Seeker

Enchantments: (5)
1 Future Sight
1 Blood Moon
1 Back to Basics
1 Treachery
1 Splinter Twin

Sorceries: ( 8 )
1 Conflagrate
1 Time Warp
1 Bribery
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Personal Tutor
1 Ruination
1 Preordain

Instants: (26)
1 Chain of Plasma
1 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Starstorm
1 Comet Storm
1 Magma Jet
1 Condescend
1 Flusterstorm
1 Sage's Dousing
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Impulse
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Brainstorm
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Cryptic Command
1 Desertion
1 Dismiss
1 Electrolyze
1 Gush
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Counterspell
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Mana Leak
1 Fire // Ice

obojetnik

I always considered playing Drift of Phantasms, Vedalken Æthermage and Swans combo in my izzet deck. Do you like those cards there?
Anyway your list looks fine, maybe with a bit higher curve, I would cut following cards:
Izzet Chronarch+Time Warp "combo" (too slow and clunky imo)
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir (I guess it protects combo, but other than that its fairly uninpressive in today's standards)
Crystal Shard (too few creatures to abuse)
Tezzeret the Seeker (too few artifacts to fetch)
Comet Storm (again too slow/big mana investment to make it interesting and then it gets so easily Spell Pierced...)
Flusterstorm (seems too narrow/conditional - only guessing as I never really tested this)
Sage's Dousing (is it some part of o toolbox - Æthermage tech? Unless I miss something like this its pretty awful)
Blue Sun's Zenith/Stroke of Genius (again I hope i don't miss any infinite mana engine, but otherwise its too slow/expensive again)
Desertion (too expensive)
Dismiss (too expensive)
Mystical Teachings (only two black manasources)
Suggestions/replacements:
Grim Lavamancer (I always liked utility creatures and Mancer is so good against almost any deck)
Inferno Titan (I copied Titans - I am playing both red and blue - with either Kiki or Twin and its been always gg)
Mulldrifter (I admit I am not 100% sure about this, but again its a critter with very good EtB ability...)
Phyrexian Metamorph (just too good/versatile to pass)
Solemn Simulacrum (See Muldriter)
Sower of Temptation (see Mulldrifter #2)
Spellskite (can be a reason to include Tezzeret, combo protection obv.)
Trinket Mage (SDT #2)
Vendilion Clique (hand disruption is good when playing combo)
Gitaxian Probe (I LOVE this card... I admit I'm a bit biased, but its good to know what to expect befrore trying to cast Twin)
Engineered Explosives (this is so good even in two color deck, also its another good Trinket Mage target)

mithranin

Thanks for the input. I tested some more and tried some of the changes.
About Drift, the card is a powerhouse, but on the other hand, it offers me a lot of choices, from combo pieces, to Back to Basic-ish effects or even a decent array of utility cards. And the Swans, I just can't make up my mind. They have an impact on the game more often than you would initially think, but on the other hand, it forces me to play Conflagrate, which I hate every time I draw it.
I consider Vedalken AEthermage as one of the more solid choices in the list, even though I'm going for Venser or Snapcaster most of the time. Or Sage's Dousing. As you pointed out, I'm playing this almost solely as a target for the AEthermage, which is pretty solid choice, especially when nobody expects it.
Gotta agree on the Time Warp, it just doesn't do enough in the majority of games. Both Flusterstorm and Crystal Shard continue to test pretty good, so I'm keeping them in for the time being.
I'm pretty sure Mulldrifter was a part of the original list, but I probably accidentaly swapped him away.
Teferi is a cute card, but as you say, it might not just cut it.
Even without the flashback, I still find Teachings solid, because it always grabs me a combo piece, or the right reactive spell. The accidental re-use is sweet, but not needed from my point of view.
I'm still not sure about Tezzeret, he is not a powerhouse in this deck, but with the recent changes, I might still keep
him in.
And it is probably useless to run Blue sun's Zenith alongside Stroke, i just LOVE drawing tons of cards out of nothing, so I kept it in more as a pet card.


To shorten it up, at this point I went:
-1 Comet Storm
-1 Desertion
-1 Dismiss
-1 Blue Sun's Zenith
-1 Teferi
-1 Time Warp
---
+1 Inferno Titan
+1 Mulldrifter
+1 Spellskite
+1 Phyrexian Metamorph
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Trinket Mage

and it seems to be a bit more stable, gonna report how it performed after some more testing...

Han

Hi, (cau Miro)

I quite aggree with obojetnik. Changes you have made should improve perfomance of your deck. Still I would omit several cards (several are same as mentioned by obojetnik)

Sage's Doussing - I understands your argument about Vedalken, but let's think about this "combo". If you want to suprise your opponent, you need 6 mana .. well... If dont want to "suprise" and your searching for Doussing EOT, then your opponent knows about this counterspell. Counterspell, that isnt hard to play around.
Flulsterstorm - this card is similar to Spell Pierce saying "counter target spell or pay 2 mana". There arent many examples, where it could be "counter target spell or pay x mana, where x > 2". Well actually it is worse then Spell Pierce because you cant counter artifacts, enchantments and plainwalkers. Finally .. i wouldnt play Spell Pierce either.
38 lands + 3 mana stones + playing blue - too many mana sources. I would cut 2 lands and add one mana stone (I suppose Talisman with black mana - helps with mystical teachings and explosives).
Tezzeret, the Seeker - I know, you have add some artifacts in last update. But there are still too few of them, and half of them you dont want to fetch. If you play more artifact answers or thophter combo, tezz is great. But not in your deck.
Fire//Ice - not bad card. But without Isochron Scepter you will mostly play the "fire" part. So you mean this as antiaggro. Where is Slagstorm then, which is better against aggro as well as against PWs?
Spellskite - I dont think this card is a good one. You may say that it protects your combo. Vendillion Clique will protect it better and will be more versatille. Also If you cut Tezzeret you should cut this also (on the contrary this is better thing to fetch with tezz, so if you want to keep him, you may keep Spellskite as well).

What to add?
Tolaria West, Wasteland - I understand you want to be "anti non-basicland-hate-deck", but wasteland fits this plan very well. Tolaria can find you explosives and riptide laboratory, which could create some nice lock.
Vendellion Clique - yep, man!
some mana stone - talisman I suppose - instead of land, it can ramp you.
Ponder - instead of land, Ponder together with Impulse, Preordain and Brainstorm is "glue" of every blue-based deck.

GL with testing.


Jopanges

Hi,
I built a quite similar deck and testet it for a while (b splash is optional. I'm not quite sure about that yet).
I don't think 40+ mana sources is too much here. It is essential to have a landdrop each turn in this deck.
Here is the list:

// Lands (36)
    10 [ISD] Island (1)
    7 [ISD] Mountain (1)
    1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    1 [ON] Riptide Laboratory
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [DK] Maze of Ith
    1 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [EVE] Cascade Bluffs
    1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
    1 [10E] Shivan Reef
    1 [TE] Wasteland
    1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
    1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
    1 [GP] Steam Vents
    1 [R] Volcanic Island
    1 Underground Sea
    1 [R] Badlands
    1 [LG] Karakas

// Creatures
    1 [NPH] Spellskite
    1 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
    1 [SHM] Swans of Bryn Argoll
    1 [NPH] Deceiver Exarch
    1 [LRW] Pestermite
    1 [GAM] Inferno Titan
    1 [US] Goblin Matron
    1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
    1 [SOM] Trinket Mage
    1 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
    1 [M12] Grim Lavamancer
    1 [RAV] Drift of Phantasms
    1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
    1 [V11] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

// Spells
    1 [UL] Grim Monolith
    1 [R] Meekstone
    1 [GP] Izzet Signet
    1 [FUT] Coalition Relic
    1 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
    1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
    1 [WL] Mind Stone
    1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    1 [SH] Intruder Alarm
    1 [9E] Blood Moon
    1 [US] Back to Basics
    1 [ROE] Splinter Twin
    1 [MM] Misdirection
    1 [NPH] Mental Misstep
    1 [M12] Mana Leak
    1 [TSP] Mystical Teachings
    1 [LG] Mana Drain
    1 [FNM] Magma Jet
    1 [CST] Incinerate
    1 [FUT] Pact of Negation
    1 [10E] Telling Time
    1 [ON] Starstorm
    1 [DIS] Spell Snare
    1 [RAV] Remand
    1 [LRW] Cryptic Command
    1 [FD] Condescend
    1 [10E] Peek
    1 [CMD] Brainstorm
    1 [ON] Chain of Plasma
    1 [DD2] Counterspell
    1 [PD2] Lightning Bolt
    1 [CMD] Fact or Fiction
    1 [AL] Force of Will
    1 [BD] Impulse
    1 [ZEN] Into the Roil
    1 [NE] Daze
    1 [AP] Fire/Ice
    1 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 [9E] Sleight of Hand
    1 [DD2] Ancestral Vision
    1 [SOM] Arc Trail
    1 [DDC] Demonic Tutor
    1 [CMD] Firespout
    1 [8E] Bribery
    1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
    1 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
    1 [M12] Ponder
    1 [M11] Preordain
    1 [FD] Serum Visions
    1 [MBS] Slagstorm


cagain

#5
Cheers,

I build a combo-control deck which is nearly the same as yours, but I added B for tutoring 'n stuff (so it's a grixis version of this deck). The deck looks like this:

Lands (36)
1x Arid Mesa
1x Polluted Delta
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Flooded Strand
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Marsh Flats
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
1x Underground Sea
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Blood Crypt
1x Graven Cairns
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x Steam Vents
1x City of Brass
1x Karakas
1x Wasteland
1x Riptide Laboratory
1x Maze of Ith
5x Island
4x Mountain
3x Swamp

Creatures (19)
1x Trinket Mage
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Drift of Phantasms
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Grave Titan
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Swans of Bryn Argoll
1x Sower of Temptation
1x Deceiver Exarch
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Pestermite
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Spellskite
1x Inferno Titan
1x Goblin Matron
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Goblin Recruiter

Artifacts (7)
1x Dimir Signet
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Vedalken Shackles
1x Izzet Signet
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Pithing Needle

Enchantments (4)
1x Bitterblossom
1x Necromancy
1x Splinter Twin
1x Treachery

Instants (20)
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Force of Will
1x Tainted Pact
1x Misdirection
1x Impulse
1x Mental Misstep
1x Daze
1x Mana Leak
1x Fire/Ice
1x Mana Drain
1x Magma Jet
1x Pact of Negation
1x Spell Snare
1x Remand
1x Cryptic Command
1x Condescend
1x Brainstorm
1x Chain of Plasma
1x Counterspell

Sorceries (13)
1x Duress
1x Thoughtseize
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Chain Lightning
1x Ancestral Vision
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Damnation
1x Bribery
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Dimir Machinations
1x Slagstorm

Planeswalker (1)
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
_______________________________
100

Should I play Conflagrate oder Lightning Storm for swans combo? It is an autowin, but it needs RRR (Lightning Storm) or RRRR (Conflagrate) to cast (together with in Chain in one round, of course). Furthermore, if my opponent has a land in hand, Lightning Storm kills me. 

If you want some further ideas, then take look at this thread: http://www.magicplayer.org/forum/index.php?topic=694.0