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Poll / Opinions etc

Started by LasH, 10-04-2011, 01:47:37 PM

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Tiggupiru

Name/Nick: Janne Öhman / Tiggupiru


How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?
7

Which mulligan-rule do you prefer?
Free Mulligan - Take this with grain of salt (I haven't had any testing in tournament setting, so I don't think I am qualified enough to answer this, but it has made testing more enjoyable for me)

How do you rate the free mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?
I don't think I can answer this without any tournaments under my belt

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules)
several times weekly

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Wasteland - See explanation above. Though I think if Academy is going to be part of the format, Wasteland needs to stay.

True-Name Nemesis - I think this should be banned in Legacy on the grounds of how it pushes some of the decks out of the metagame. HL is a different story, having TNN doesn't make any strategies nonviable, but it's a really "Oops" - draw in your opener/early turns. Stupid card.

I haven't had enough testing to say anything about Tolarian Academy. I feel the current iterations of the decks are perfectly beatable, but Academy decks 4.0 are probably going to be way more powerful than these current prototypes. Too early to say in several fronts, I think.


Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)


Natural Order - Replace with Titan if this is really a problem, which I really don't think it is. I felt like this ban was just as unnecessary (if not even more than) as the Stoneforge one. Speaking of which...

Stoneforge Mystic - There was a time I considered this to be problematic enough, but not anymore. Powerful card, but I don't think it is nearly the levels of degenerate advantage of Oaths and Academies, both of which I am currently okay having in the format anyway. Simple innocent Stoneforge is nothing compared to lots of things happening in the format.

Mystical Tutor - Probably too powerful to have floating around with Academy, but I could be wrong. If Academy gets axed, I am positive this isn't going to wreck anything. I mean, it's not like Demonic or anything.

Vampiric Tutor - Either unban this, or ban Demonic. I don't care either way, but powerlevel wise there is no reason not to have both or neither around.

Entomb - Reanimator is not tier 1 currently and I really don't think banning of Entomb was the reason of this deck's decline. Best card of the deck, sure, but the deck is completely playable without it. We've had some sweet cards since this got banned (Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite Shaman) and I feel Reanimator could use a little push.

Orkpopper

#91
Name/
Nick: Marc (Orkpopper)

How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to
10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

8

Which mulligan-rule do you prefer?
Free Mulligan

How do you rate the free mulligan on a scale from 1 to
10?

8
At first I did not like the mulligan change, but after some matches it appeared to be the better solution for our format. It still has its downsides (more games are dicided by manascrew and nutdraws), but games feel better and more fun overall.

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules)
several times weekly

How often have you played on a HL-GP / -Cup?
3

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why?
(max. the 5 most important ones)


True-Name Nemesis -  New to the format, but seems to be brutally unfair. Let's give it a try, put this card on the watchlist and discuss it again in 3 months.

Price of Progress - I'm quite surprised that few players think that this card is a problem. 8-10 damage against most decks in the format on a 2 mana instant spell is very powerful. I saw too many red decks win games in which they were dead on the board by random PoP from the top...

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list
and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)


Entomb - Reanimator, Pattern-Rector and other GY based decks are not a problem right now, so give them a new tool

Gifts Ungiven - A 4 Mana Tutor which needs skill to use, imo not unfair

Mana Vault - Is this any worse than Grim Monolith? Costs 1 Mana less, but can only be untapped in upkeep, which is a huge disadvantage

Imperial Seal / Vampiric Tutor - They are not any better than other Tutors in the format

DarkLight

Name/Nick: Flo / WitH-FuLL-Force

How do you rate the banned-list?
(on a scale from 1 to 10)
8

Which mulligan-rule do you prefer?
Spoils Mulligan

How do you rate the free mulligan?
(on a scale from 1 to 10)

5
I think with the 'free mulligan' more games are won or lost by individual draws (Mana flood /-screw or Top-Decks)

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules)?
Several times weekly

How often have you played on a HL-GP / -Cup?
5

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why?
(max. the 5 most important ones)

True-Name Nemesis -  This creature give the opponent no interaction and can win games alone.

Mana Drain - Disruption + Ramp for 2 Mana seems pretty unfair for me.

Tolarian Academy - The reason(s) why this card was banned for so long can't be wrong now.

Oath of Druids - The most decks can't handle turn 1-3 Oath so it's really difficult to handle an early fatty or disrupt a combo win.

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why?
(max. the 5 most important ones)

Umezawa's Jitte - I dont think this card is still so powerful that a place on the banlist is justified.

Strip Mine - The most lands who will be destroyed are non-Basics anyway, so it would be cool to have a second 'Wasteland'.

Stoneforge Mystic - I just want this card back, ban 'Batterskull' instead :P
Formerly known as With-FuLL-Force.

azmotus

Name/Nick: Sami Laitinen / azmotus

How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?
8

Which mulligan-rule do you prefer?
Free Mulligan

How do you rate the free mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?
9

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules)
several times weekly / once per week

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

True-Name Nemesis - A cheap beater that requires very specific removal to get rid of.

Mishra's Workshop - The only reason this card isn't already banned is the pricetag. If more people could afford to run it, it would soon become apparent how broken it is.

Dark Depths - Stupid two card combo that can be easily tutored and hard to disrupt. Can go to almost every deck there is, especially if you're playing green.

Vazdru

I've collected 42 lists at GP Hanau, so we have already 47 feedbacks.
It will take some time to analysis it, probably i will post the results next week or so.

Feel free to join the evaluation so long  :)
Far below the earth
Where the demons hunt the souls of those that sleep
In the city of the Vazdru and the Drin
Where the black flame burns inside the palace fountain.

Doks

#95
Name/Nick: Marcel / Doks

How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

9 (For me, it's pretty close to perfect currently since it allows certain strong cards for every deck type and there are only a few debatable choices; future development (hello Academy!) should be taken into consideration though)

Which mulligan-rule do you prefer?

Free Mulligan

How do you rate the free mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

10. Imo, either you like it (10) or you don't (1). I think it has adressed a lot of the problems people criticized (greed decks, generally too low land count in all archetypes, less skill required to make a deck work when you can shape your starting hand etc.) which is a good thing.

How often do you play Highlander

Once per week.

How often have you played on a HL-GP / -Cup?

2 times.

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Worldly Tutor: Either have these CMC 1 tutors allowed alltogether or ban them all (with the exception of the black one maybe). Each archetype profits tremendously from 1 or 2 of them, so why have them not all available / banned for fairness reasonings?  

True-Name Nemesis: This is debatable. Seeing that Stoneforge Mystic is banned, this guy seems banworthy, too. He is pretty decisive in the creature-based strategy matchup. Not so much vs control, but still. Should wait for future development.

Back to Basics, Blood Moon, Price of Progress: Pretty much all the common non-basic hate. I have not thought about it yet until I read the suggestions in this thread, but now that I think of it, there might be something true about it. And I say this as someone who loves himself some Izzet control. Although I like my opponents conceding to a well-timed B2B/BM, I have to admit that there might be a problem if I win via a pretty simple strategy (even worse: a single card) that usually has a much, much harder time against more resilient mana bases (for example, playing against two-colored Control as an Izzet mage feels like playing with half of your deck only). I guess the folks before me explained it way better, so I stop here.

Wasteland: I can't say yet if I want it to go or not. Fact is: Wasteland is an autoinclude in almost any deck. The random wins an early Wasteland onto some dual land provides is nothing this format needs, especially after we got rid of the hand-sculpting spoils mulligan. Even when it's not that game-changing, it's still nice to get rid of the annoying manland or slowing the opponent down while being in a favorable board position. It's basically never bad (except for maybe the first turns when you need coloured mana, but that's something different). On the other hand, this might become the most important to Academy decks and currently is one of the few ways to deal with other strong utility lands. I'm not sure about that one, but it's worth taking it into consideration.

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Vampiric Tutor: Yes, this is debatable and I know there are some good arguments against it, so don't get me wrong when I just name some positives right now. Its powerlevel is certainly higher than the other allowed CMC 1 Mirage tutors since it searches every type of card for the cost of 2 life, but I still think it's not that much over the top. As long as we have its bigger brother for 1B in the format (which I'm a big fan of), arguments saying the effect was "too broken" seem pretty weak. Also I predict that certain archetypes (namely Combo / certain control decks) can benefit a lot more from it than the predominant creature-based strategies (but it's still good there, no question), which brings archetypes closer up to par. Lastly, I think that Black as a colour is in desperate need of having another strong card.  


Helpful suggestions are welcome!

The Council shall continue to do a good job like this and please never ban Mana Drain l0l.

Tabris

I AM very upset by this post Doks. How can you realy asking for a ban of pop, b2b or blood moon when we just had an HL Cup with the dominance of ONE single deck (for the record I dont think that deck is a problem but the mentality of the players).

In addition to that: the random win generated by wasteland IS EXACTLY what our format needs. Players need to be punished because the mechanics of the game itself is asking for that kind of hate. People have to lose games more frequently bc of holding 2 land hands with nothing but business. As long as people play 35 lands or even less they need to feel what that means stats-wise. (assuming we still use the inferior free mulligan).

I heard the 4c blood player held a 2 land hand in the semifinals with aether vial + hymn to tourarch (no double black on hand) and was on the draw against an ultra aggressive naya deck and is KEEPING that hand bc he thinks "every creature I draw is online". That kind of thinking needs to be purged and some cards help us to do that (if the variance is on vacation for that deck) (and just to be clear there are some situations were you have to be greedy bc you have to play your outs but this is not the kind of situation. One drop one Drop two drop and that would be game, easy as that)

phyrexianblackmetal

First of all, I'd like to say that I strongly agree with Tabris and that it's a shame that people are suggesting Nonbasic Hate to be banned. As it currently stands, these cards are what keeps the greedy decks in check most efficiently. The natural risk/reward balance of Magic has become watered down in our format, there is little to no risk involved in adding more colors to your deck. Nonbasic Hate however is one of the consistent risk factors still there. Removing it would be very detrimental to the format. Greed should be punished, not rewarded.

Name/Nick: Niclas/phyrexianblackmetal


How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

8. I'm quite happy with the current ban list, there's not much that could be improved.


Which mulligan-rule do you prefer?

Free Mulligan, although I would not mind if the Spoils Mulligan would be reintroduced.


How do you rate the free mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

5. Again, although I personally prefer the Free Mulligan, I do not see it as inherently better than the Spoil Mulligan. I also think that neither of them is necessarily the perfect mulligan variant for the format.


How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules)


several times weekly/once per week


How often have you played on a HL-GP / -Cup?

0 times.


Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

True-Name Nemesis: Take this with a grain of salt. TNN is not an unbeatable card, it can only be removed with specific removal, but that's nothing we haven't seen on other creatures like for example Thrun, the Last Troll. What really makes this card broken is its resilience in combat. It's unblockable and at the same time pretty much a perfect blocker, which makes it very hard for many creature-based decks to deal with an early TNN. Still, it might not be enough to make this card ban-worthy, but it should at least be put on the watchlist.


Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Entomb: I don't think this card would be too problematic if it was unbanned. It's by far not a card that every black deck would want. Yes, it can be very potent in the right deck, but so can other cards (like the recently unbanned Tolarian Academy). It would also strengthen graveyard-based decks, which are pretty much nonexistent in our current meta except for a few exceptions. I think unbanning this card would not completely throw the format out of balance, but provide a possibility for further developing deck diversity.

Imperial Seal: Vampiric Tutor might be too strong for the format, but Imperial Seal might be worth considering for an unbanning. Yes, it's a very cheap tutor, but I think that sorcery-speed and its high pricetag would be enough to keep it in check.

Kenshin

I am 100% with Tabris here. We hardly see any two color strategies because it is so damn easy to go for 4 colors. And without the hate red and blue have I am pretty sure there would be no incentive left to build 2 colored decks. As much as I hate to lose against a random B2B or Blood Moon, I am sure there is a dire need for cards that keep the 4c decks in check.

And as for Wasteland: In most games it is used to get rid of a pesky utility land. I accept the few games, where it is used to colorscrew or manascrew an unlucky draw because of it's upsides. Compared to most other constructed formats highlander decks have a ridiculously low amount of land cards. There are several reasons why this actually works:
a) the format has a load of mana-elves/birds to accelerate and fix
b) free mulligan/spoils mulligan make it easier to fish for lands
c) we have all the manipulation spells ever printed

I too think greed should be punishable.

I turned my poll sheet in at the gp but I thought about a card that I want to add to the ban list:

Blood-braid Elf: With the high amount of quality cheap creatures/spells our format offers her to flip and the extremely low amount of true control decks present, I do believe this card is one of the nails in the coffin of control decks. But I am not too sure about it. Maybe I just hate playing against that card.

berlinballz

i completely agree with tabris on this. if there was no 4-of wasteland in legacy, every deck would play 5 colors. there should actually be more wastelands in highlander. and i really don't mean to be offensive, but i cannot take anyone's opinion seriously, who only asks for cards for their deck to be unbanned and for cards they hate playing against to be banned.

try to look at the bigger picture. i did considerably well in hanau and i'm still very unhappy with the direction the meta is taking since the rule change. stop being so fucking selfish, please. i don't wanna have to move to victoria.


orca-

Quote from: phyrexianblackmetal on 03-01-2014, 03:29:43 AM
Imperial Seal: Vampiric Tutor might be too strong for the format, but Imperial Seal might be worth considering for an unbanning. Yes, it's a very cheap tutor, but I think that sorcery-speed and its high pricetag would be enough to keep it in check.

Really?
"A card is fine in the format cause it costs 300€?" That's what you are saying!

ChristophO


@Tabris:
I am really upset with your post. The tournament was not dominated by one deck. Out of 20 Blood players only 3 (15%) made Top16 (Top 12%)  (finishing x-2 or better). In comparison 3 out of 10 (30%) Izzet players made Top 16 as well... . Also the metagame slice for control is way up and the slice for Aggro decks is down. I also do not understand your mulligan rant at all. People need to be punished by wasteland (I agree by the way) because they need to keep punishable hands in their 4color decks more often now thanks to the free mulligan. To me that is a good development! And the sucess of the Izzet guys and the demise of 5color Aggro prooves my point (if one wants to put so much meaning into a single tournament).


W0lf

The free mulligan made it more valuable ro play a random pile like 4c, than to play a decent well thought deck. There is a high amount of izzet decks because they profit from greedy luckdecks. So basically you have created a 2 deck meta qith the free mulligan. Ggs..

phyrexianblackmetal

Quote from: orca- on 03-01-2014, 11:14:18 AM
Quote from: phyrexianblackmetal on 03-01-2014, 03:29:43 AM
Imperial Seal: Vampiric Tutor might be too strong for the format, but Imperial Seal might be worth considering for an unbanning. Yes, it's a very cheap tutor, but I think that sorcery-speed and its high pricetag would be enough to keep it in check.

Really?
"A card is fine in the format cause it costs 300€?" That's what you are saying!

No, that's not what I'm saying (or at least not, what I meant, maybe I didn't articulate my thoughts that well). If a card is obviously broken, it doesn't matter how expensive it is. If a card wins 90% of the games it is played in, it should probably be banned, no matter if it costs 3€ or 300€. I just don't think that's the case with Imperial Seal. It's a 1-mana tutor that can search for everything, but I think that the fact it's a sorcery brings it down in power level enough to consider unbanning. You can't play it in response to a discard spell or at the end of your opponent's turn, meaning you don't get the card you tutored for until your next turn, unless you already have a carddraw spell. This should give your opponent enough time to prepare/react. The high pricetag is just an added bonus. If I am wrong and the card is in fact too powerful for the format, the pricetag will most likely limit the damage it causes to the format before being banned again, since so little people can afford it that you won't see it that often.

W0lf

And to make one thing clear. The higher amount of control decks is in no way connected to the free mulligan, it is obviously because of the tolarian unban which is a good thing. Without cards like academy or oath there would be no reason to play any type of control deck besides soft u/r nonbasic hate.