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PurlQg
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« Reply #15 on: 17-04-2011, 02:59:10 AM »

@ HIGHLANDER COMMUNITY
Name:purlQg / Alex, from Denmark_________________________________________________


Questionnaire for MTG Banned List (valid due 15.10.2008, see below)


•   Ancestral Recall
•   Balance
•   Black Lotus
•   Buried Alive
•   Chaos Orb
•   Dread Return
•   Enlightened Tutor
•   Entomb
•   Falling Star
•   Fastbond
•   Flash
•   Grindstone
•   Imperial Seal
•   Library of Alexandria
•   Life from the Loam
•   Lion's Eye Diamond
•   Mana Crypt
•   Mana Vault
•   Mind Twist   
•   Mox Emerald
•   Mox Jet
•   Mox Pearl
•   Mox Ruby
•   Mox Sapphire
•   Mystical Tutor
•   Skullclamp
•   Sol Ring
•   Strip Mine
•   Survival of the Fittest
•   Tolarian Academy
•   Time Vault
•   Time Walk
•   Tinker
•   Trinisphere
•   Umezawa's Jitte
•   Vampiric Tutor
•   Wheel of Fortune
•   Yawgmoth's Will   Alle Ante-Karten:
•   Amulet of Quoz
•   Bronze Tablet
•   Contract from Below
•   Darkpact
•   Demonic Attorney
•   Jeweled Bird
•   Rebirth
•   Tempest Efreet
•   Timmerian Fiends
•   Evil Presents
•   Fruitcake Elemental
•   Gifts Given

How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?
8,5

How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?
9 – I love it

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average
Once per week

How often have you played on a HL-GP?
I am a fairly new Highlander player, the GP is in Germany so never

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)
Many people suggest cards like Demonic Tutor and Gifts, I say no because these cards would limit the possibility of playing combo – I feel the combo decks have it hard enough already.
If you were to ban DT and Gifts, then please unban mystical and enlightened – if not you just make combo even more impossible…

The Green creature tutors could be banned – the format is moving to a more creature driven, this would balance some of it out, and mostly help the combo decks with this MU – not able to fetch Quasali or Teeg or any other creature answer with your 4 creature only tutors would make combo more doable.

Qasali Pride-Mage is to good a creature in the current meta. 2 mana for a 2/2 with 1 mana disenchant and a extra ability – that’s sick. With the current meta this guy could potentially be banned.

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Trinisphere – not as powerful as it used to be, only playable in lockdown and this deck is not as strong as it used to be, it totally depends on your opening hand, and is a useless late game card, if you are able to cast it turn 3 and not earlier it’s utter useless most the majority of the current field.

Yawgmoth’s Will – great in mono black, which isn’t played, potentially useable in combo, other than that not important. I feel this card would be a no brainer to unban.

Thanks a lot for participance!

Helpful suggestions are welcome!

Great with this questionnaire – nice to know your being heard
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Vaaren har det let hver gang den indtager vores lille klode!
Ball.Lightning
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« Reply #16 on: 17-04-2011, 11:06:08 PM »

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Name:Ball.Lightning__________________________________________________________________


*How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

9

*How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

8 (prevents unluck factor)

*How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average

 2-3 per week

*How often have you played on a HL-GP?

Never

*Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)
Oath of druids - this card can by itself win the game. Noninteractive card.
Mishra Workshop - one land to produce 3 mana for single taping? This cant be fair by miles.
Shahrazad - WTF card. If u are afraid of time issues, why is this card not banned?

*Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Trinisphere - i realy do not fear of T1 trini lock - familiar with it from legacy - without workshop it would be far less powerfull.
Loam of the Loam - my favourite card. Prefer to have this awailable, than intuition for example.
« Last Edit: 17-04-2011, 11:07:59 PM by Ball.Lightning » Logged
Nyytti
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« Reply #17 on: 17-04-2011, 11:08:16 PM »

Heyho. I just basically registered here to answer the questionnaire about the banned list while we wait for the online poll.
This format is very dear to me, and I'd like to at least give my opinion on it. Who knows, it might have a positive impact on the future of the banned list. Roll Eyes I also want to say that all of the bannings and unbannings should be discussed further and more openly.

How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?
7. The format is, as said above, very enjoyable, but I do have some small critique about it.

How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?
9. No complaint whatsoever.

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average?
Once per week on average, sometimes more, sometimes less.

How often have you played on a HL-GP?
Never.

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)
1. Gifts Ungiven, hands down. It's too splashable, it does take a lot of time to resolve (most of the times people playing it curse by themselves on how annoying the spell is to play). Also, unbanning this card would make some other cards, eg. Life from the Loam less problematic and perhaps unbannable. I can't recall a single game I've won after a resolved gifts by the opponent.

2. Demonic Tutor. It's too much of an autoinclude for pretty much any deck. It's also very splashable. Extremely powerful card.

3. Sensei's Divining Top. Not really too problematic, but it does consume a lot of time. It's also an autoinclude in pretty much every deck.

4. Mana Drain. The card is broken in half. An early game Mana Drain does indeed spell GG for the most part, at least from my experience.
I understand that there is a popular belief that aggro is dominating the format, and banning this card would push the format towards an unhealthy direction, but I heavily disagree. Can't say my opinion isn't biased, since I do hail from the control-heavy meta of Finland. Smiley

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)
1. Life From the Loam. The only times I saw this card as too powerful was when it was fetched via Gifts Ungiven (wink wink nudge nudge).

2. Enlightened Tutor. I understand this card was partly banned because of Survival of the Fittest? Shouldn't be too problematic anymore. The same goes for Mystical Tutor. Banning Gifts would also make these less problematic!

The idea to ban fetchlands is at least interesting and worth discussing.

Yawgmoth's Will, Entomb and Buried Alive do not seem format-breaking to me, but I have no real personal experience about them. I think it would be smart to test these out, for example by unbanning them for a short period of time to see what people think.

Edited to make the post clearer.
« Last Edit: 17-04-2011, 11:14:24 PM by Nyytti » Logged
Kassow-Rossing
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« Reply #18 on: 18-04-2011, 09:44:20 AM »

Name: Patrick, Denmark

How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?
7. The format looks healthy but some things could be changed for the better in my opinion.


How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?
10. The way Commander mulligans is great too but this seems like the best for every one.


How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average?
Several times a week and three monthly tournaments.


How often have you played on a HL-GP?
Never, it's in Germany.


Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)
1. Gifts Ungiven. I think this card is too strong and it is really easy to splash it too. Banning this card also leads to unbanning the unpowered Life from the Loam, which only is on the ban list due to Gifts Ungiven and Intuition.

2. Intuition. Remember this is only my opinion and feel free to feel otherwise yourself. I really think Gifts should be banned purely because of power scales, so if Gifts is gone: Should Intuition or LftL be banned? I say Intuition because none of the cards are any powerful but having both in the format is troublesome. Intuition is also the boring of the two. Please help me here Council.

3. Demonic Tutor. This card is not only the best tutor in the game and format but it can also go in any Mono Green or Mono Red deck due to the fetch lands and dual lands. I'm having a really hard time explaining to people why this card isn't banned since I'm practically the only guy participating here online. I'm fine with the card but people are really confused and I think they have the right to be.


Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why?
1. Life From the Loam. I don't think this card will be any powerful without Gifts Ungiven and Intuition. This card should not get unbanned if Gifts Ungiven doesn't get banned.

2. Trinisphere. I don't think this card will be remotely useful in this format even with Mishra's Workshop. I understand if people disagree, but I really can't see any existing deck playing it. Not even Staxx.

I think the following cards should be tested but I have no experiences with them myself:
Yawgmoth's Will, Entomb, Tolarian Academy and Buried Alive.

Be well
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SpoCk0nd0pe
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« Reply #19 on: 18-04-2011, 04:30:01 PM »

Sorry to be such a disturbance but I strongly disagree with the posts about unbanning mirage tutors and banning gifts/demonic.

Mirage tutors are just way way more powerful then demonic or gifts. Simply because they deal with the main threat to combo: discard. Plus they virtually cost no mana compared to 2 (quite much) or 4 (hilariously much).
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Syras
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« Reply #20 on: 19-04-2011, 10:44:26 AM »


Name: Syras


How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

8

How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

6

I do not like it that Players can improve ALL of their starting hands (even acceptable ones) without any cost.
I think players should be rewarded for good deckbuilding that leads to more consistent decks which need to mulligan less. When i see control decks playing 33 mana producing lands (equals 20 lands in a 60 card deck) i always think that this should not be possible. As much as i hate the EDH/commander format i really think the EDH-mulligan (which is basically a mix between traditional Paris- and HL-Mulligan) is a good idea!

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average

   once per week

How often have you played on a HL-GP?

never

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Demonic Tutor: There is a reason why this card is restricted in Vintage. In a 100card singleton format this card is even MORE powerfull. People are complaining about the good creature Tutors in aggro decks, which make the aggro decks so flexible. But Demonic is even more powerfull. I think if this card was green or white it would have been banned long time ago since not many HL decks play black as one of their main colors and therefore have to splash for Demonic. But since many decks just do that my argument still stands. I also think it is questionable if Demonic is worse than Enlightened or Mystical.

Mana Drain: Too much random wins with this card in my opinion.

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Trinisphere: This card is only really good if you can play it turn 1-2 on the play. I really think that aggro-HL-decks are consistent enough to beat a turn 2 Trinisphere and even that shouldnt happen to often.

Thanks a lot for participance!

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coldcrow
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« Reply #21 on: 19-04-2011, 11:49:17 AM »

How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?
7

How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?
7 : Favoring redundant decks e.g. non-combo, also leading to landcount "cheat"

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average?
Regularily online

How often have you played on a HL-GP?
Never.

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Only to be viewed in conjection with the next question:
Worldly Tutor : Makes zero sense to ban the other topdeck tutors and let this one live with all the new printings.

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Yawgmoth's Will, Buried Alive : Decks sped up alot, there is plenty of very good gravehate available which isn't currently run due to the absence of recursion or animator decks.

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Zirendaril
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« Reply #22 on: 20-04-2011, 09:49:39 AM »

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Name:Zirendaril


How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

8

How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

10 (100 cards, so the probability for extremely messed up hands is in practice greater than when playing with 60 card decks)

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average

Once per week 

How often have you played on a HL-GP?

Never

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

To name a few:

Gifts Ungiven: To my experience a player who plays Gifts wins the game almost certainly. Power level is just ridiculous.

Mana Drain: What the hell... Do I really need to explain? Also see the next category.

Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale/Library of Alexandria/Moat/Imperial Seal/Ravages of War/Imperial Recruiter etc etc.

While these cards may not necessarily be too powerful (many of them do seem quite broken to me), the thing is that I don't see why they shouldn't be banned just because of their current prices. It would be a shame if highlander, too, became a contest between purses. On the other hand playing constructed MTG is expensive and people just have to face it, and of course anyone can make "it's a slippery slope" -type of arguments if we start banning cards for being too expensive, but I think the tip of the iceberg could easily be cut off, especially since many of the pricey cards are quite broken anyway. This would also compliment the current policies well (WC-cards are allowed etc.). I am not aware is this currently a "problem" at all, since I've got no idea how many highlander-people actually own these cards. This isn't the most acute issue, but something I think people should give some consideration in near future.

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)
My experience in highlander is so limited, that I cannot answer this question properly.
« Last Edit: 20-04-2011, 09:52:19 AM by Zirendaril » Logged
Kassow-Rossing
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« Reply #23 on: 20-04-2011, 10:40:23 AM »

Zirendaril
So you think if a card is not too powerful or format-breaking but still very expensive, it should be banned so the people who own and play the cards can't have the fun with it and will have to sell their cards?

I don't think any card should be banned on money issues. The game should be as healthy as possible and not as cheap as possible.
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Sephiron
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« Reply #24 on: 20-04-2011, 11:42:20 AM »

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Name:Sephiron

How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

8 (Relevant cards are banned, but bant is too good)

How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

11 (gives real advantage to more experienced players and makes you think about mulliganing while removing some of the luck involved in mulliganing, i love it)

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average:

several times weekly   

How often have you played on a HL-GP?

Never

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Stoneforge Mystic (Card is too strong, its like jitte: is you get one on turn 2 opponent is in deep trouble, plus it makes equipments like SoFI/SoFF tutorable with creature tutors)

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Yawgmoth's Will (strong card, but doesnt break the format)

Suggestions:

My opinion is that midrangish creaturedecks are too good, since pure control cant deal with continuous stream of creatures that bring card advantage (mystic, shriekmaw, venser etc.). So I would suggest either banning something from those decks to weaken them (mystic swords or something like that), though since wizards are continuously printing better creatures that might be not such a good idea. That is why i think it would be better to unban some combo (entomb, buried alive, yavgomth's will or maybe even dread return) cards to make combo decks better thus making midrange weaker and control stronger making metagame more balanced, since currently there arent any good combo decks in format (which i think is wrong).

P.S. In my opinion lately the most relevant bans were: loam, survival, library of alexandria, mind twist and enlightened tutor. While they made metagame better for example banning loam made any kind of dredge strategies (and graveyard strategies overall) much worse, so i would like if they would get some goodies unbanned.

P.P.S Although i know gifts is strong and sometimes wins games outright I believe it isnt unfair enough for it to get banned since it is likely that banning it wont change metagame at all.
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Nastaboi
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« Reply #25 on: 20-04-2011, 01:12:17 PM »

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale/Library of Alexandria/Moat/Imperial Seal/Ravages of War/Imperial Recruiter

I'd suggest that you check out which cards are in the banned list first place before answering the question.
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Sturmgott
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« Reply #26 on: 20-04-2011, 01:51:43 PM »

I keep wondering why people completely ignore the fact that the most wanted cards for banning ALL do not occur in the last GP's top 8...

If at all something must be done, then it is to nerf creature-based aggro. Unbanning balance - and banning Zuran Orb in the course (so Balance does not become Staxx cheapest Armageddon) - could be an attempt at boosting control AND combo likewise. I'd also suggest unbanning Mystical Tutor. Maybe even Vampiric Tutor... This would also solve the "problem" of explainability why Demonic Tutor is not banned. Think about it. The direction the game currently develops towards is everything else than healthy...
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LasH
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« Reply #27 on: 20-04-2011, 02:45:09 PM »

I keep wondering why people completely ignore the fact that the most wanted cards for banning ALL do not occur in the last GP's top 8...

If at all something must be done, then it is to nerf creature-based aggro. Unbanning balance - and banning Zuran Orb in the course (so Balance does not become Staxx cheapest Armageddon) - could be an attempt at boosting control AND combo likewise. I'd also suggest unbanning Mystical Tutor. Maybe even Vampiric Tutor... This would also solve the "problem" of explainability why Demonic Tutor is not banned. Think about it. The direction the game currently develops towards is everything else than healthy...

Wow, its like reading my own thoughts Smiley. I totally agree with you, even if i have to say i'm wondering what u think about balance:

"Unbanning Balance did not have the desired effect of improving control decks in the format. Instead of that Balance was abused by combo decks as the ultimate no-brainer creature removal. Furthermore the stax deck abused Balance as a combination of Wrath of God/Mind Twist/Armageddon for just two mana. In this respect unbanning Balance was a mistake which we hereby rectify."

This could happen again and seems maybe even more broken than academy, at least to me. But that we even think about such ridiculous cards to "balance" out things again, says more than 1000 posts.

Its like ppl have in mind "dont ever ban creatures - creatures are not broken". I dont remember any creature ban's in magic history which were not part of a combo. But i think this is a different format and ppl need to learn that this is not even close a rock - paper - scissors format or a rotating format. Even if i dislike bannings, i think it might be time to cut some of the creature-based spoils, before we unleash cards like balance or academy (but i think that will not happen. I think there is a higher chance to see balance/academy again, than simply ban creatures or creature based tutors).
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peeler
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« Reply #28 on: 20-04-2011, 05:49:00 PM »




Its like ppl have in mind "dont ever ban creatures - creatures are not broken". I dont remember any creature ban's in magic history which were not part of a combo.

One all migthy creature was Banned in extended (first banned list):

KIRD APE!
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Kassow-Rossing
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« Reply #29 on: 21-04-2011, 12:36:24 AM »

I just wish to say that I think it is amazing how the forum has developed and how we all can have so many different views upon the format! I really love it! I also deeply hope that the HL Council will continue to listen to the people because we are many around in Europe playing the format outside of Germany. So probs to them too!
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