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Author Topic: Poll / Opinions etc    (Read 115796 times)
tonytahiti
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« Reply #135 on: 05-03-2016, 02:35:18 PM »

@tobir

Same as you, i don't mean any harm - but there seems to be a very limited understanding of this deck, the cards in it, what tournament results of this size (tiny tiny size) really mean and what the difference is to other combo decks.

Paul Templin in Berlin has a Win Percentage that is about 82-83% (thats a guess, a generous one even, it might be higher) and at the recent MGM5 he went 9-3 in Games (75% win percentage, thats still very high, eventhough low for this freakin insane standards). It is important that we focus on this Man, this Man named Paul Templin since he invented the deck, tuned it to insane heights, is the most skillfull with it and, maybe most importantly, knows how to mulligan with this deck - he mulligans aggressively. To make it short: Paul Templin is a completely different animal with this deck! Now you say "so its the player?" It is not the player, it is the deck, that gets flawlessly by this certain player. Like Blood gets played pretty flawlessly by about 10 People in Germany, this deck gets played flawlessly by one. Thats important to realize.

It is absurd how often I hear "it did not win a big tournament, it is a local phenomen!". First of all, there arent big tournaments in this dwarf format. Top8 at MGM is NOTHING ELSE than 4-0 at your local tiny shop 4 round fnm, since you 4-0 the first rounds at MGM and then double draw. So "2 Scapeshift decks made top8 at this recent wow so big tournament" is nothing else "wow scapeshift won fnm!". Real Format Grand Prix is about 15 rounds + 3 more rounds. Highlander is going 4-0 and then "getting lucky" and "playing well" to lift that mgm trophy. That is such small data! I give you some more viable data: Paul Templin has won 7 of 10 Fnms here in Berlin. Thats alot of matches on alot of days, vs alot of decks. And i do not want to sound arrogant, but winning a FNM in Berlin (going 4-0) i rate higher than making top 8 at a MGM (which is basically the same record) since here the competitivness is pretty unreal, since everybody tries to win vs this deck and tuning vs this deck ( a deck this dominant drives people to update and to tune and to improve).

Now we had a fnm yesterday- 12 People, all very willing to beat this monster, all very motivated. Guess who won? Paul Templin won with Artifacts. I consider myself a strong player with a deep understanding for the format and i felt i cruised through the field at the MGM - my only loss was to Paul Templin and then in the Semis to RDW (which is very hard for grixis, since i dont clock hard enough have literally zero lifegain and, often cant secure the 2-for-1 early game that i need to actually gain headway). Anyways, yesterday i played vs Paul Round 1. I win the dice roll and play land. He plays mishras workshop into double talisman into senseis divining top. You know what? From this spot, it is INCREDIBLY HARD for me to win this game of magic. And i dont win -  with the amount of mana he generates he has an insane of topdecks that I NEED TO COUNTER to not lose on the spot (time spiral, wheel, will, wargate, rings, staff, + about 10 other spells). And thats not his best draw, by far not, game two he goes fastbond turn 1 into 4 lands turn 1 into those rings of tralala. Turn 2 he plays memory jar cracks it gets academy and finds lands and ressources /tutors to infinite combo me Turn 2. And now the real problem: The cards that make this deck so busted are SUPER HARD TO INTERACT with. The academy that comes off the top or gets tutored out in response to my clique with crop rotation (and silly me thinks clique is good vs him, it is etc..but this deck operates on a different level) can not be interacted with. It WILL CREATE those 5-6 mana, sometimes 43-44 (untap academy twice etc, i saw him generate about 50 mana with it yesterday vs scapeshift) and there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO. Of course you can spreading seas it in your turn or sinkhole it (which are not winning lines, believe me i know), or waste it..but it will create absurd amounts of mana when it enters the battlefield. Academy is a freakin Land and sometimes i feel like i have to explain to people that you can not counter a land, or cannot make him discard it. Academy is a broken magic the gathering card, it is. And fastbond is too. And that is because BOTH CREATE FAST MANA, fast mana is the enemy of this game we love since it breaks a fundamental rule -  one land per turn, one mana one land, fair silly magic. SAme with fastbond, what are you gonna do vs 1 one mana enchantment turn 1 on the draw? Misstep or force of course. So i got 2 Cards in the format that stop it. How many cards stop that turn 5 scapeshift? Infinite counters, discards spells mindcensor etc..so i am not sure how you can ever compare those cards to scapeshift. Its baffling to me how this comparison is made. Everything about the discussion is baffling to me.

We have a real problem. We do. And i dont care about "local phenomenon", I really dont. It is real, it is happening. Paul Templin broke this format way harder than Caw Blade or Summer Bloom broke their formats, way way harder, so hard it hurts my soul sometimes. Summer bloom got banned in modern, did it win many grand prixs? it didnt. But wizards realized it is super degenerate and creates a format that is WARPED around this deck and that forces people to play cards to beat it but are totally crap vs other decks. Wizards does not say "it didnt win a big tournament in the last month, everything is fine" they are smarter than that! And they dont even take those 2000people grand prix as only indicator, while some people in this format take 50 and 100people tournaments as indicator? REALLY?

« Last Edit: 05-03-2016, 02:44:35 PM by tonytahiti » Logged

Winner - Pro HL Cup, Prague 2002
Winner - Highlander Regional Masters, Phuket 2006
Winner - Sunrise Trophy Run, Hawaii 2006
Winner - North Dakota HL Championships 2007
Winner - Tahiti "One And Only"-Cup #3, 2009
Winner - Gio di Gio Seria, Florenz, 2016
Winner - Jail or be Jailed, Berlin, 2017
Nevinyrral
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« Reply #136 on: 05-03-2016, 05:00:53 PM »

@TobiR:
At first: The most important sentence from my previous speaker you should take with you is: “Paul Templin is the most skillfull with this deck.”. However, that’s primary because he designed the deck and Paul overall performs very well. Already with Mono Red Paul regularly came to the top of the standings. To what extent the 82-83% (which were admittedly calculated with a lot of gut feeling) are justified by the Deck or the player, I leave to the imagination of the reader.

I also was one of the FNM players yesterday and there was a heated debate about this topic. Because even in Berlin not everyone of us find the deck as excessively strong. Some fun facts:
On the MGM#4 Paul only reached place 24 of 45.
The first place yesterday was determined by the third Tiebreaker (together with Scapeshift, which in contrast to Artifact Combo Control only occurred 2 times in MGM 5 and had a Top 8 presence of 2 decks).
The scenario with 50 Mana against Scapeshift developed in the late game (ca. turn 12). To be fair it should be mentioned that the deck is able to produce indefinite Mana on turn 2. However, this is dependent on many factors and is by far not the rule.

The reason, why my previous speaker hears so often, that this is a local phenomenon, is in the first case that it is a local phenomenon. Fact is that the deck is only played in Berlin on a regular base. Therefore you will find no arguments above against this fact, but only a “And I dont care about “local phenomenon”, I really dont.”.
Assuredly you have noticed, Tobi, that the deck presence of the most powerful deck in the world even in Berlin is very low. Indeed 3 other persons tried to play the deck on the MGM (place 22, 35 and 39 out of 52), however you will again only find Paul in the final standings with this deck this week. Also concerning the question why don’t play more people Artifact Combo-Control, our detractors only react with lack of understanding. The answer “It doesn’t make fun. I only play what is fun for me.”, you may also find unsatisfying like half of the FNM players yesterday. Also additional answers don’t want to be integrated in the deck, because they are “dead” against other decks. Of course this conflicts with the wish to play the own Pet deck. Wink

You see, we have to differentiate here. Tonytahiti is maybe right with the point to not only use data from the bigger events. But he doesn’t speak for the whole Berlin.

Regards!
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« Reply #137 on: 05-03-2016, 06:59:56 PM »

just a side-note:
Paul is playing his deck in the current online league as well, like already in the last one:

2:0 vs G(r)-Devotion (Iulus)
2:0 vs RDW (dsck)
1:2 vs Izzet (Tazi)
1:2 vs Esper (Payron)
2:1 vs Reanimator (K0d013e4st)
0:2 vs RDW (r4nd0m)

total record: 8:7


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TobiR
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« Reply #138 on: 05-03-2016, 07:33:45 PM »

Hey, thank you both for the fast answers. Before I start with my comments to your responses, I just want to say that I'm not trying to just be anti everything you just metioned. If the deck is a real problem, I want it banned before someone starts playing it in my area. Wink So far I've come to understand some problems with the deck. Other things I'm not sure about yet and I would really like to hear your take on it.

@tony:
1. I get that the deck is capable of doing very powerful things very fast. I also get that my scapeshift comparison was wrong. Would you also consider this deck vastly different from TPS regarding it's ability to do unfair things (would you say that the artefact combo deck is more unfair/less fun to play against than TPS)? I ask this specifically because TPS is also a deck which is played way more in Berlin than anywhere else.

2. " Paul Templin is a completely different animal with this deck! Now you say "so its the player?" It is not the player, it is the deck, that gets flawlessly by this certain player."

I would like you to elaborate on this subject. Isn't it possible that Paul T. is just a very skilled combo deck player and once you'd ban the cards for his pet combo deck he would switch to TPS or another combo deck, master this deck over a certain time period as well and dominate the Berlin fmn scene again?

3. " He plays mishras workshop into double talisman into senseis divining top. You know what? From this spot, it is INCREDIBLY HARD for me to win this game of magic. And i dont win -  with the amount of mana he generates he has an insane of topdecks that I NEED TO COUNTER to not lose on the spot (time spiral, wheel, will, wargate, rings, staff, + about 10 other spells)."

This example confuses me. The problematic card here is workshop, ain't it? This start would still be possible after the banning of academy and/or fastbond, right? Or am I missing something?

4. "game two he goes fastbond turn 1 into 4 lands turn 1 into those rings of tralala. Turn 2 he plays memory jar cracks it gets academy and finds lands and ressources /tutors to infinite combo me Turn 2."

That is a sick start no one wants to play against. That was my first thought. Here's my second thought: 1 fastbond, 1 land to play it, 4 lands from fastbond, ring, memory jar. That's 8 cards. On turn two. So you can't tell me this a regular occurance. Even Paul T., who plays this deck very often, would admit that this exact combination of cards is unusual I believe. How often does this deck really go off in the early turns? I think that is really important to know. Turn 2 has to be magical christmasland. And if it does consistently goldfish turn 4, would you regard that as too fast?
Furthermore let's not forget that only the jar really wrecks you in this example. If you have spell Pierce, Wasteland, Thoughtseize, etc so he can't play the jar, he has just 5 Lands, one fastbond, one ring and no cards in his hands....
Still, 5 lands on turn one is sick and not something you'd want in the game. At the same time I see that there is a downside. You don't have many hand cards left. If you go 5 Lands on turn one there aren't many business spells left in your hand and you're in topdeck mode really quickly.

5."The cards that make this deck so busted are SUPER HARD TO INTERACT with. The academy that comes off the top or gets tutored out in response to my clique with crop rotation"

Weird to say you can't interact with this stuff and then immediately mention tutors (like crop rotation) which definetly can be interacted with. I play crop ro myself in my highlander deck and I have been wrecked pretty hard by mental misstep numerous times by now. Also this doesn't happen super early in the game (like crop ro turn one or something), does it? So there is time for you to get counterspell mana up.

6. "It WILL CREATE those 5-6 mana, sometimes 43-44 (untap academy twice etc, i saw him generate about 50 mana with it yesterday vs scapeshift) and there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO"

That's a really unpleasant situation. I guess you can stop untap shenanigans with wasteland or tec edge but you will not be able to stop the first activation. I don't actually know if there's a good way to compare it to another card. The closest thing would probably be gaea's cradle and elfs finishing with craterhoof. Both cards that fuel the land (academy/cradle) make mana on their own (talisman/elfs) and create an unfair situation. The problem being that creature removal (especially mass removal) is much more prevalent than artefact mass removal. Sounds unfair to me.
So as far as I understand it, he has to deploy some of his resources to ramping/lands and it is hard to interact with him while he is creating fast mana. so you have to hit his business spells tomake him pay for this. I get that you can't counter lands (I'm not stupid) and that interaction with his ramp cards is not possible (which should probably be a red flag on its own for the council), but he doesn't have a limitedless amount of payoff cards. I'm missing why it isn't possible to discard/counter those and make him rely on topdecks (like in the jar situation you described; counter his jar and he has only topdecks)
AGAIN: I'm not trying to undermine your opinion. It is valuable to me because I haven't played against this deck just once. So please stay calm.

@Nev: I get the pet deck thing. And think it is remarkable that even you, somebody who doesn't think is excessively strong, admits that it is capable of infinite mana as early as turn two. So it probably is right to ban it.  Undecided


edit says: @tony: Look at vazdrus post -> These results are exactly why people question this decks power. If I would tell you about a deck that just about wins every fnm at my local shop and then doesn't win one of the big tournaments or perform well in the online league wouldn't you be suspicious as well?
« Last Edit: 05-03-2016, 07:37:03 PM by TobiR » Logged
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« Reply #139 on: 08-01-2017, 04:37:58 PM »

there was a survey at JK End-of-Year-Event
the results will be posted in this thread soon - actually we have 38 feedbacks
if you haven't had the chance to fill it out or forgot to give it back, you have still the chance to take part by using the online-version:

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Survey (Version 01/2017)


Name/Nick:

_________________________________



Where are you from?

_________________________________



How often do you play Highlander (highlandermagic.info rules)?

___   several times weekly

___   once per week

___   once per month
   
___   only bigger tournaments



How often have you played on a bigger Highlander-Event, like the HL-Cup or the MGM (including this one)?

___________



Which prices do you like to win on an event like this?

____ Strong and expensive Highlander cards like Workshop, Tabernacle, Mana Drain, Duals

____ Strong and expensive cards, which I can also use in the format ___________ like Snapcaster
          Mage, Tarmogoyf, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Fetchlands

____ Vouchers for the store or Online Shops (e.g. JK Events, Magiccardmarked.de)

____ Prices don’t matter as long price payout is fair (good relation between value of price cards in
          comparison to expected sum of starting fee)


How do you rate the current Banned List on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

__________
         

 
Which cards are missing on the Banned List and why?

   



Which cards should be deleted from the Banned List and why?

   


Thanks for your participation!

 
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« Reply #140 on: 08-01-2017, 06:12:38 PM »

Survey (Version 01/2017)


Name/Nick:
Flo / DarkLight


Where are you from?
Heidelberg (Germany)


How often do you play Highlander (highlandermagic.info rules)?
Several times weekly, mostly online via Cockatrice


How often have you played on a bigger Highlander-Event, like the HL-Cup or the MGM (including this one)?
5-6 HL-Cups former GPs


Which prices do you like to win on an event like this?
Fair vouchers for Magiccardmarked.de


How do you rate the current Banned List on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?
9

 
Which cards are missing on the Banned List and why?
Mana Drain: 2cc Ramp + Disruption (2 in 1). It allows you mostly to play turn 3, spell(s) for 5-6cc + you slowed down your opponent.
Oath of Druids: I want this card on the banlist since a few years now. Because its hard to handle and playable really early in the game so mostly there is no time given for the opponent to react. With creatures like the Eldrazis or Grislebrand the game could be pretty much over at turn ~3. In addition this card is at the moment mostly played by combodecks who use this card only to mill their deck into the graveyard which increases my wish for a ban even more.
Tolarian Academy: This card makes it more and more possible to play decks like 'Eggs' who are more like Solitaire decks with nearly no player interaction. So probably the only player who has fun with this kind of decks is the pilot himself.
   

Which cards should be deleted from the Banned List and why?
Stoneforge Mystic: Since this card was banned few more new tools to handle her or the equipments she provides were released, furthermore I think even a turn 2 'Stoneforge Mystic' into turn 3 'Batterskull', which was probalbly the main reason for the ban, wouldn't harm the format too much these days.

Imperial Seal: The Powerlevel of this card in comparison to some other cards in this format is kinda ridiculously low. The price question in my opinion is no reason to keep 'Imperial Seal' banned as long as cards like 'Mishra's Workshop', 'Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale' or 'Moat' are not banned.

Library of Alexandria: As the meta of the past few years showed us, that decks which can use this card at it's full power are not dominating at all so in my oponion it should be considered to unban this card, too.

Strip Mine / Umezawa's Jitte: Just because I would like to see how these "permanent bans" would perform in the meta today. They are on the banlist since forever (anno 2005) and never considered to be unbanned even since the meta changed dramatically since then.


Thanks for your participation!
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« Reply #141 on: 11-03-2017, 12:44:57 PM »

thanks to the 39 who took part on this small evaluation
here are the results:

average banned-list: 7,89 (results past years: 7,59 in 2016)  
(1 = poor / 10 = great)

   
   Ban:                  Unban:               
   Demonic Tutor      7      17,95%      Stoneforge Mystic      15      38,46%   
   Mana Drain      6      15,38%      Sensei's Divining Top      7      17,95%   
   Mystical Tutor      4      10,26%      Imperial Seal      6      15,38%   
   Tolarian Academy      4      10,26%      Gifts Ungiven      4      10,26%   
   Oath of Druids      4      10,26%      Entomb      3      7,69%   
   Treasure Cruise      4      10,26%      Library of Alexandria      3      7,69%   
   Dig Through Time      3      7,69%      Umezawa's Jitte      2      5,13%   
   Tainted Pact      3      7,69%      Natural Order      2      5,13%   
   True-Name Nemesis      2      5,13%      Strip Mine      1      2,56%   
   Bazaar of Baghdad      2      5,13%      Birthing Pod      1      2,56%   
   Yawgmoth's Will      2      5,13%                     
   Price of Progess      1      2,56%                     
   Scapeshift      1      2,56%                     
   Blood Moon      1      2,56%                     
   Mystic Confluence      1      2,56%                     
   Academy Rector      1      2,56%                     
                              
   
                                 
   
   Banned-List               
   10      2      5,13%   
   9      7      17,95%   
   8      18      46,15%   
   7      5      12,82%   
   6            0,00%   
   5      4      10,26%   
   4      1      2,56%   
   3      2      5,13%   
   2            0,00%   
   1            0,00%   
   -            0,00%   
         39         
               


additional:

source: Facebook

community-poll at Highlander Magic Europe
as of 17/03/10

which cards should be banned:
1.None46 votes
2.Demonic Tutor31 votes
3.Mana Drain25 votes
4.Tainted Pact15 votes
5.Dig Through Time12 votes
6.Tolarian Academy10 votes
7.Oath of Druids9 votes
8.Mystical Tutor8 votes
9.True-Name Nemesis, Fastbond, Treasure Cruise each 6 votes

which cards should be unbanned:
1.Stoneforge Mystic41 votes
2.None26 votes
3.Gifts Ungiven25 votes
4.Entomb19 votes
5.Grindstone16 votes
6.Imperial Seal8 votes
7.Vampiric Tutor6 votes
                           
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

2016   

               
   Ban:                  Unban:               
   Natural Order      12      32,43%      Stoneforge Mystic      6      16,22%   
   Sensei's Divining Top      12      32,43%      Gifts Ungiven      6      16,22%   
   Mana Drain      10      27,03%      Entomb      3      8,11%   
   Demonic Tutor      9      24,32%      Library of Alexandria      3      8,11%   
   Mystical Tutor      7      18,92%      Umezawa's Jitte      2      5,41%   
   True-Name Nemesis      6      16,22%      Survival of the Fittest      2      5,41%   
   Dig Through Time      2      5,41%      Imperial Seal      2      5,41%   
   Price of Progress      2      5,41%      Birthing Pod      2      5,41%   
   Tolarian Academy      2      5,41%      Grindstone      1      2,70%   
   Yawgmoth's Will      2      5,41%      Balance      1      2,70%   
   Blood Moon      1      2,70%                  
   Fetchlands      1      2,70%                     
   Gaddock Teeg      1      2,70%                     
   Intuition      1      2,70%                     
   Mishra's Workshop      1      2,70%                     
   Tarmogoyf      1      2,70%                     
   Treasure Cruise      1      2,70%                     
   Wasteland      1      2,70%                     
   
               
@ MGM

Ban         Unban      
Fastbond   9   40.91%     Stoneforge Mystic   10   45.45%  
Tolarian Academy   8   36.36%     Entomb   6   27.27%  
Demonic Tutor   5   22.73%     Gifts Ungiven   6   27.27%  
Mana Drain   4   18.18%     Imperial Seal   2   9.09%  
Oath of Druids   3   13.64%     Birthing Pod   1   4.55%  
Mystical Tutor   3   13.64%     Chaos Orb   1   4.55%  
Sensei's Divining Top   2   9.09%     Grindstone   1   4.55%  
Yawgmoth's will   2   9.09%     Umezawa's Jitte   1   4.55%  
Natural Order   2   9.09%     Library of Alexandria    1   4.55%  
Ban the Reserved List   1   4.55%     Mind Twist   1   4.55%  
Tainted Pact   1   4.55%     Vampiric Tutor   1   4.55%  
True-Name Nemesis   14.55%  

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

2014   

   
   Ban:                  Unban:               
   Mystical Tutor      11      33,33%      Stoneforge Mystic      6      18,18%   
   Mana Drain      10      30,30%      Entomb      5      15,15%   
   Oath of Druids      9      27,27%      Natural Order      5      15,15%   
   Demonic Tutor      9      27,27%      Fastbond      5      15,15%   
   True-Name Nemesis      5      15,15%      Umezawa's Jitte      4      12,12%   
   Price of Progress      5      15,15%      Gifts Ungiven      2      6,06%   
   Sensei's Divining Top      4      12,12%      Vampiric Tutor      2      6,06%   
   Tolarian Academy      1      3,03%      Survival of the Fittest      2      6,06%   
   Mishra's Workshop      1      3,03%      Library of Alexandria      1      3,03%   
   Helm of Obedience      1      3,03%      Imperial Seal      1      3,03%   
   Blood Moon      1      3,03%      Birthing Pod      1      3,03%   
   Yawgmoth's Will      1      3,03%                     
   Worldly Tutor      1      3,03%                     
   Enlightened Tutor      1      3,03%                     
   Fetchlands      1      3,03%                     
   Tarmogoyf      1      3,03%                     
   Sword of the Meek      1      3,03%                     
   Tabernacle       1      3,03%                     
   
                                 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

2013

   Ban:                  Unban:               
   True-Name Nemesis      24      44,44%      Entomb      11      20,37%   
   Oath of Druids      17      31,48%      Mystical Tutor      9      16,67%   
   Mana Drain      13      24,07%      Gifts Ungiven      8      14,81%   
   Tolarian Academy      10      18,52%      Natural Order      7      12,96%   
   Demonic Tutor      9      16,67%      Stoneforge Mystic      5      9,26%   
   Sensei's Divining Top      9      16,67%      Library of Alexandria      5      9,26%   
   Mishra's Workshop      6      11,11%      Umezawa's Jitte      5      9,26%   
   Wasteland      3      5,56%      Vampiric Tutor      4      7,41%   
   Price of Progress      3      5,56%      Imperial Seal      2      3,70%   
   Life from the Loam      3      5,56%      Grindstone      2      3,70%   
   Dark Depths      2      3,70%      Fastbond      2      3,70%   
   Back to Basics      2      3,70%      Birthing Pod      2      3,70%   
   Blood Moon      2      3,70%      Mana Vault      2      3,70%   
   Worldly Tutor      1      1,85%      Mind Twist      1      1,85%   
   Yawgmoth's Will      1      1,85%      Survival of the Fittest      1      1,85%   
   Intuition      1      1,85%      Strip Mine      1      1,85%   
   Deathrite Shaman      1      1,85%      Falling Star      1      1,85%   
   Craterhoof Behemoth      1      1,85%      Sol Ring      1      1,85%   
   Enlightened Tutor      1      1,85%                     
   Fetchlands      1      1,85%                     
   Tarmogoyf      1      1,85%                     
   Sword of the Meek      1      1,85%                     
   Hermit Druid      1      1,85%                     
   Wheel of Fortune      1      1,85%                     
                                 
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

2012

   
   Ban:                  Unban:               
   Birthing Pod      20      46,51%      Life from the Loam      11      25,58%   
   Stoneforge Mystic      13      30,23%      Yawgmoth's Will      9      20,93%   
   Sensei's Divining Top      7      16,28%      Gifts Ungiven      8      18,60%   
   Mana Drain      6      13,95%      Dread Return      8      18,60%   
   Batterskull      4      9,30%      Enlightened Tutor      8      18,60%   
   Mishra's Workshop      4      9,30%      Library of Alexandria      5      11,63%   
   Worldly Tutor      4      9,30%      Mystical Tutor      5      11,63%   
   Jace, the Mind Sculptor      3      6,98%      Lion's Eye Diamond      5      11,63%   
   Demonic Tutor      3      6,98%      Entomb      4      9,30%   
   Aether Vial      2      4,65%      Umezawa's Jitte      3      6,98%   
   Eladamri's Call      2      4,65%      Balance      2      4,65%   
   Intuition      2      4,65%      Sol Ring      1      2,33%   
   Moat      1      2,33%      Survival of the Fittest      1      2,33%   
   Crumbling Sanctuary      1      2,33%      Tinker      1      2,33%   
   Channel      1      2,33%      Strip Mine      1      2,33%   
   Wheel of Fortune      1      2,33%                     
   Wasteland      1      2,33%                     
   Fetchlands      1      2,33%                     
« Last Edit: 11-03-2017, 12:47:06 PM by Vazdru » Logged

Far below the earth
Where the demons hunt the souls of those that sleep
In the city of the Vazdru and the Drin
Where the black flame burns inside the palace fountain.
berlinballz
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« Reply #142 on: 21-03-2017, 12:36:38 AM »

Hey, thanks for all the effort. Just a question and what I understand from reading this.

Do you happen to also have the no-ban/no-unban numbers for those 39 participants as well? That would also be interesting.

What I get out of these numbers is this:

- great result on the ban-list rating, nice job council, community seems happy (almost an 8, very good)
- new bans seem absolutely unwanted by community, by a pretty huge margin, also great
- community wants Stoneforge Mystic, which I think might make Jeskai too good, but oh well




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derStefan82
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« Reply #143 on: 21-03-2017, 09:06:20 AM »

I would read it pretty similar.

Most people are really happy with the format.
No need for bannings. The only card that stands out is stoneforge
with a much higher rating then all other cards on both polls.
Maybe people want another weapon against rdw.
Format anyway is much faster now.

I hope demonic tutor will not be touched.
There are similar amounts of people for banning it then for unbanning top.
And more people for banning nothing.

As I already stated several times, this will weaken specific brewes and combo a lot.
In terms of speed you already have a hard time with combo against Aggro
nowadays and I think aggressiv decks should fear combo by nature.

One popular  reason through the last banning seasons for the demonic bannings was
weakening Blood. Here the meta has adjusted and we are far away from blood dominated.

At the moment a whide range of decks is playable successfully without the one deck people
Constantly complaining about and beating everything.

I really enjoy highlander right now, thanks for your good work.
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« Reply #144 on: 21-03-2017, 02:29:51 PM »

Do you happen to also have the no-ban/no-unban numbers for those 39 participants as well? That would also be interesting.

No sorry, I haven't.
I've already tinkered to redesign the questionaire and will probably do so.

I will change this part:

"Which cards are missing on the Banned List and why?
Which cards should be deleted from the Banned List and why?"

to:

"This are the current cards on unban- and ban-watchlist. Please vote (X) for ban or unban:

      
         BAN      UNBAN      WHY (optional)   
   Demonic Tutor                     
   Dig Through Time                     
   Fastbond                     
   Mana Drain                     
   Mystical Tutor                     
   Oath of Druids                     
   Tainted Pact                     
   Tolarian Academy                     
   Treasure Cruise                     
   Yawgmoth's Will                     
   Entomb                     
   Grindstone                     
   Imperial Seal                     
   Stoneforge Mystic                     
   Vampiric Tutor                     
                     

Which other cards are missing on the Banned List and why?
Which other cards should be deleted from the Banned List and why?"

I guess this will be more meaningful.
« Last Edit: 21-03-2017, 02:33:31 PM by Vazdru » Logged

Far below the earth
Where the demons hunt the souls of those that sleep
In the city of the Vazdru and the Drin
Where the black flame burns inside the palace fountain.
berlinballz
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« Reply #145 on: 22-03-2017, 09:54:32 PM »

It still might help to include an item such as "Should there be changes or are you fine with the ban list as it is?" Just so you don't feel stupid for not filling anything out. Also writing "Unban" next to a card that is not banned seems confusing, maybe?
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