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GBW combo - Pattern-Rector

Started by Tiggupiru, 09-08-2010, 11:58:38 PM

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Dreamer

New build is up. The changes in my previous post have been incorporated, and Aven Riftwatcher got the boot for Obstinate Baloth. Also stumbled upon a Condemn at random and will be testing it in the Path slot. Should be better than giving them tempo, while still retaining answers to problematic things like Lackey. Still not convinced on the Terastodon, but will keep it in to test more.

In a way, I'd want to include either Therapy or Castigate, but I just hate the idea of playing Therapy in Highlander and Castigate probably just costs too much.

EDIT: Forgot that Congregation got upgraded to Sylvan Tutor, decklist corrected.

Tabris

So I´ve uploaded a video. It shows how the combo actually works. I choose Kokusho there but ofc a lot of other options would be also considerable.

Btw. I´ve added Archon of Justice instead of Angel of Despair, since it gets the job done as good as Teratodon and Shriekmaw, but can also be good w/o any combo parts on the defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLu2J86q2xw

Dreamer

#17
That game was just ridiculous, especially just randomly drawing Ghoul and Rector in the first two turns. Still disapprove of Kokusho, though, the Yosei lockdown is usually easily enough (I mean, he's totally tapped out for the next thousand turns or so?), and Yosei synergizes with Recurring Nightmare much better. On the Archon, I'm a bit hesitant. It costs a lot, isn't really big enough to go toe to toe with most of control's stupid, big finishers, and only does relevant stuff when it dies. One mana less and it'd be a monster, but as it is I just don't see it. If you don't like donating your opponent some elephants it'd be far more sensible to replace Terastodon with Woodfall Primus: Big, durable trampler, does it's thing ETB, and can be NatOrdered.

Dreamer

Again, new build is up. Our shop's meta has been changing more towards all manner of control and mana ramp decks, so cut some unreliable cards and put in more reliable ones. Discard <3

Diff:
- Elvish Visionary, Body Snatcher, Condemn
+ Fyndhorn Elves, Cabal Therapy, Castigate

With Scars we got Skinrender, and I'm quite interested in replacing Damnation with it. The bugger kills or makes irrelevant just about anything while providing a decently-sized body. The only thing that makes me hesitate are the aforementioned mana ramp decks, against which Damnation is just a far better card.

For those who've tried it, how has Gifts been performing? I've drawn it once or so the entire time it's been in the deck, so can't really comment much. What do you see as ideal piles? Something like Rector-Guide-Order-Witness? Or would Pattern-Order-Witness-Regrowth be better? (The latter only if you're using Regrowth in the first place, obviously. I'm still torn between it and Grim Discovery).

Tiggupiru

I still haven't seen Gifts enough to say how powerful it really is, but I guess the card is just too good not to play it. The real question is: Is Intuition good enough? Also, if you play Gifts, play Regrowth. Grim Discovery is IMO slightly better without the splash, but with the inclusion of Gifts, Regrowth is superior.

Dreamer

#20
Actually, after giving it a bit of thought, I believe the question isn't "Gifts is probably too good not to play. Is Intuition good enough?" but more like "How fast can I add Gifts and Intuition to my deck, and what to cut." Why?

Thinking about it, I realized my general perception of Gifts and Intuition were largely shaped by control decks which played Lark and/or Thopter combo, and, in Intuition's case, Loam. They were tools of inevitability that provided a slow-ish but certain victory.
You once said that Reveillark isn't really the point of the deck. What if we go about answering the Gifts question from a "how can I win NOW / resolve a Tinker" standpoint? Turns out the answer is "If I untap, you die." Why? In control decks, Gifts is traditionally slow as hell because they have to fetch the sacrifice outlet, too, which means the opponent generally dumps Karmic Guide and Body Double to their hand from a basic lark-guide-double-husk stack. You can't go lower than that. We can. And we can just go for the Tinker route. The possibilities are endless as long as the player remembers to not fetch both Rector and Pattern, and, if going for Tinker, to not fetch both Reveillark and Karmic Guide.

For example, a basic Intuition: NatOrder, Rector, Karmic Guide. If you want a four-card Gifts, Living Death is quite nice.
Intuition can be used like control decks use Gifts because of our sac outlet redundancy: Lark, Guide, Living Death/Witness. This is a generally good stack even without a Husk, because it sets up a stupidly strong lategame with all the card advantage and turns all Husks into I Win cards. Control never wants to do it because they have one Husk. We have six, and a metric ton of tutors to boot.

I could ramble on and on, but in the end it's only a matter of what to cut. I believe that in my deck the victim will probably be Wrath or Idyllic Tutor. In yours, Tainted Pact is probably the clear target for a cut.

EDIT:

Intuition-Rector is up. Will be playing this one a lot this week to see how it'll end up.

Genesis

Quote from: Dreamer on 07-11-2010, 11:37:36 PM
Again, new build is up. Our shop's meta has been changing more towards all manner of control and mana ramp decks, so cut some unreliable cards and put in more reliable ones. Discard <3

Diff:
- Elvish Visionary, Body Snatcher, Condemn
+ Fyndhorn Elves, Cabal Therapy, Castigate

With Scars we got Skinrender, and I'm quite interested in replacing Damnation with it. The bugger kills or makes irrelevant just about anything while providing a decently-sized body. The only thing that makes me hesitate are the aforementioned mana ramp decks, against which Damnation is just a far better card.

For those who've tried it, how has Gifts been performing? I've drawn it once or so the entire time it's been in the deck, so can't really comment much. What do you see as ideal piles? Something like Rector-Guide-Order-Witness? Or would Pattern-Order-Witness-Regrowth be better? (The latter only if you're using Regrowth in the first place, obviously. I'm still torn between it and Grim Discovery).

I have tested Gifts some games and it has been good when i needed that. Sometimes you draw it when you have already all pieces together and you can go and fetch like duress, thoughseize, eternal witness and regrowth. So you can get secured win against control if you don't already have that change. What i like about Gifts is that's versality (yeah really), you just grap what ever you need depending your board position and see another turn with better position or win in best case next turn.

Dreamer

A somewhat random idea that just came to mind: Would it be worth it to test Disfigure or Deathmark in the StP slot? It's still 1-mana removal and can deal with annoying early threats from the opponent, but can also be used for things like killing your own Rector/Patterned creature, something StP simply can't accomplish.

Tiggupiru

The deck has been through a serious revamping recently, thanks to Jori Hukka (kozel) and Tuomas Pyyhtiä (pyyhttu) for giving me food for thought in form of cards and ideas to take the deck to somewhat another direction. I 4-0'd with this yesterday (played against UB control twice, BG aggro and 4color balls-to-the-walls aggro), so I still think this deck is very much viable. I won by attacking more often than comboing, btw. Without further ado:

// Lands
    1 Bayou
    1 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    1 Arid Mesa
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Wooded Foothills
    1 Windswept Heath
    1 Overgrown Tomb
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    1 Temple Garden
    2 Plains
    4 Swamp
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    6 Forest
    1 Caves of Koilos
    1 Brushland
    1 Llanowar Wastes
    1 Stirring Wildwood
    1 Godless Shrine

// Creatures
    1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    1 Carrion Feeder
    1 Bloodthrone Vampire
    1 Wall of Roots
    1 Reveillark
    1 Yavimaya Elder
    1 Kitchen Finks
    1 Academy Rector
    1 Wall of Omens
    1 Wall of Blossoms
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Birds of Paradise
    1 Noble Hierarch
    1 Fyndhorn Elves
    1 Llanowar Elves
    1 Tidehollow Sculler
    1 Dimir House Guard
    1 Elves of Deep Shadow
    1 Knight of the Reliquary
    1 Lotus Cobra
    1 Shriekmaw
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Arbor Elf
    1 Saffi Eriksdotter
    1 Yosei, the Morning Star
    1 Karmic Guide
    1 Terastodon
    1 Fauna Shaman
    1 Viscera Seer
    1 Protean Hulk
    1 Sylvan Ranger
    1 Skinrender
    1 Grave Titan
    1 Ravenous Baloth // Eats Protean Hulks
    1 Stoneforge Mystic // Really sick against control, won me two games
    1 Ranger of Eos // Needs one more good target to cement this slot
    1 Sun Titan // Synergistic, but I am still unsure. Does combo with Saffi and sac-outlet
    1 Yavimaya Dryad // Still rather torn by this, I guess it's okay
    1 Nest Invader // Another test slot, decent, but I want better cards
    1 Necrotic Ooze // I knew this being rather weak going in to the tournament, but tested it anyways. Will be cut

// Spells
    1 Natural Order
    1 Thoughtseize
    1 Duress
    1 Pattern of Rebirth
    1 Eladamri's Call
    1 Recurring Nightmare
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Vindicate
    1 Living Death
    1 Diabolic Intent
    1 Chord of Calling
    1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
    1 Grim Discovery
    1 Primal Command
    1 Inquisition of Kozilek
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Worldly Tutor
    1 Sylvan Tutor
    1 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Sword of Light and Shadow
    1 Phyrexian Arena
    1 Oblivion Ring
    1 Faith's Fetters // I really want Wizards to print a better anti-aggro card. Not horrible, but still kinda meh


Most notable difference is that I have no three-drop sac-outlets as they don't really do enough. I also cut Boreal Druid (which I want back in as soon as I found a way), some of the worst tutors and trimmed the mana base (which still needs work). Also, no blue as I didn't have the time and energy to find out how big the splash is going to be and if it's even worth it. Also the new more aggroish approach really doesn't go well with the Gifts, despite it being obviously sick.

Questions, comments, flames?

Dreamer

You should've posted this yesterday evening. Tuomas was driving me insane with curiosity in the chat last night :P

Build looks nice, I like Ranger, Skinrender and the Stoneforge package quite a bit. Sun Titan seems a wee bit weird, but could work I guess.

I've been handling the blue splash in the oldschool build with just Trop, Island, Gifts, Intuition. It's been good thus far, but would probably feel quite iffy with the beatdown build. Whoa, just noticed Grave Titan! Looks intriguing.

Anyway, to the uncertain slots: Besieged gives us Green Sun's Zenith and Viridian Emissary, both of which should fit here very nicely, especially together. (I'll definitely be trying Emissary in my shop - red and black out the wazoo, with relatively little in the way of white-heavy decks) If we go so far as to play Dryad Arbor, Green Sun would even give us another mana dork and a way to sac fetch=>Tinker=>win. Also fetchable by Ranger for lols.

If we're emphasizing the beatdown, how about Scute Mob? Bugger is a monster lategame, and with an additional recursion engine in the form of Titan, it could turn into something very evil very quickly.

Thrun instead of Fetters? Overgrown Battlement? A singleton Wrath effect? Vampire Nighthawk? Infest?

Tiggupiru

Quote from: Dreamer on 03-02-2011, 04:03:31 PMYou should've posted this yesterday evening. Tuomas was driving me insane with curiosity in the chat last night :P

Where is the fun in that?

Quote from: Dreamer on 03-02-2011, 04:03:31 PMI've been handling the blue splash in the oldschool build with just Trop, Island, Gifts, Intuition. It's been good thus far, but would probably feel quite iffy with the beatdown build. Whoa, just noticed Grave Titan! Looks intriguing.

That looks like the right amount of blue, but I won't be trying it with this build. Grave Titan is pretty sweet, providing defense and offense at the same time.

Quote from: Dreamer on 03-02-2011, 04:03:31 PMAnyway, to the uncertain slots: Besieged gives us Green Sun's Zenith and Viridian Emissary, both of which should fit here very nicely, especially together. (I'll definitely be trying Emissary in my shop - red and black out the wazoo, with relatively little in the way of white-heavy decks) If we go so far as to play Dryad Arbor, Green Sun would even give us another mana dork and a way to sac fetch=>Tinker=>win. Also fetchable by Ranger for lols.

Emissary is pretty weak, but it could theoretically be decent in the old version with more sac-effects, but I don't even want to try it here. Zenith is the obvious nuts.

Arbor is something that has lots of synergy, but I don't think there is anything that is weak enough to get cut to make room for it. I still think it's pretty weak card and the new approach requires cards to be powerful rather than being useful in marginal situations.

Quote from: Dreamer on 03-02-2011, 04:03:31 PMIf we're emphasizing the beatdown, how about Scute Mob? Bugger is a monster lategame, and with an additional recursion engine in the form of Titan, it could turn into something very evil very quickly.

Thrun instead of Fetters? Overgrown Battlement? A singleton Wrath effect? Vampire Nighthawk? Infest?

Scute Mob is just a bashing dork that has no synergy, I'd rather just play Tarmogoyf if I wanted to go that way. Instead of just beating down, I think this deck needs it's creatures to have two modes: Generating card advantage and/or comboing (tutors, NO, Rector, Pattern...). This gives us the possibility of attacking in multiple angles, which really puts the opponent in tough spots at times.

I forgot to clarify the purpose of Faith's Fetters. It's there to be tutored by Academy Rector (and Dimir House Guard). There are better anti-aggro cards, but not something that is both castable and rectorable.

Ball.Lightning

#26
Hi,
I am toying with this deck about two months. I have also tried version with blue, but it has quite unstable manabase. I have tried implement multiple combos in this deck - Squrrel Nest/Earthcraft + Dark depths. Nest was not shockingly good, but I kept dark depts combo in deck. Deck contains all cards, that supports dark depths combo in normal BG agro control + even more tutors. My next focus was the manabase, I wanted it as stable as possible. This deck usually wins either through combo or recursion. Very rarely I manage to win through pure agro plan.



// Lands
    2 [IA] Snow-Covered Plains
    3 [IA] Snow-Covered Forest
    3 [IA] Snow-Covered Swamp
    1 [A] Scrubland
    1 [A] Bayou
    1 [A] Savannah
    1 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
    1 [RAV] Temple Garden
    1 [GP] Godless Shrine
    1 [EVE] Twilight Mire
    1 [EVE] Fetid Heath
    1 [SHM] Wooded Bastion
    1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [ON] Windswept Heath
    1 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
    1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
    1 [TE] Wasteland
    1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
    1 [US] Phyrexian Tower
    1 [CS] Dark Depths
    1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog       //tutorable grave hate
    1 [TE] Reflecting Pool
    1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
    1 [WWK] Khalni Garden     //meat for pattern rebirth or Eldrazi conscription or Recuring nightmare
    1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor       //same here

//Acceleration
    1 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
    1 [A] Llanowar Elves
    1 [IA] Fyndhorn Elves
    1 [RAV] Elves of Deep Shadow
    1 [WWK] Arbor Elf
    1 [RAV] Birds of Paradise
    1 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
    1 [MI] Wall of Roots
    1 [MBS] Viridian Emissary   //I am testing it, but I kind like it + mana stability(only one green in cost) - I play full load of sac. outlets
    1 [M11] Sylvan Ranger       //again good meet + mana stability(only one green in cost)
    1 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker

//Combo
    1 [DIS] Protean Hulk
    1 [UD] Academy Rector
    1 [UL] Karmic Guide
    1 [CHK] Yosei, the Morning Star
    1 [TSP] Saffi Eriksdotter
    1 [MOR] Reveillark
    1 [ZEN] Vampire Hexmage
    1 [ROE] Eldrazi Conscription

//Sac. outlets
    1 [M11] Viscera Seer
    1 [SC] Carrion Feeder
    1 [M11] Bloodthrone Vampire
    1 [ON] Nantuko Husk
    1 [US] Phyrexian Ghoul
    1 [RAV] Dimir House Guard
    1 [EX] Recurring Nightmare

//Toolkit
    1 [UL] Bone Shredder
    1 [FD] Eternal Witness
    1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
    1 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
    1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
    1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver     //can get rid of pesky enchantment/artifact (tutorable with zenith) + meat
    1 [ALA] Tidehollow Sculler
    1 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor     //screws other combo, slow down control - I am pretty sattisfied with him
    1 [M11] Sun Titan           //Exelect creature here, it can revive Animate death + majority of dorks
    1 [WWK] Terastodon          //sometime I wish it is Progenitus, but sometimes it has stunning perfomance - time will tell
//Defense + survival
    1 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
    1 [ROE] Wall of Omens
    1 [M11] Obstinate Baloth
    1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks

// Tutors
    1 [M11] Fauna Shaman
    1 [PS] Diabolic Intent
    1 [R] Demonic Tutor
    1 [UL] Crop Rotation       //Dark Depths, V. Stronghold, Wasteland, Phyrexian Tower
    1 [PS] Eladamri's Call
    1 [UD] Pattern of Rebirth
    1 [MOR] Idyllic Tutor
    1 [MI] Worldly Tutor
    1 [PT] Natural Order
    1 [LRW] Primal Command
    1 [CS] Into the North        //finds Dark Depths or ramps
    1 [RAV] Shred Memory         //either grave hate, but most likely tutor for hexmage, Diabolic tutor, sac outlet, Regrowth or Animate Death
    1 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith   //i haven't tested it much, but I feel it fits in the deck

//Removal
    1 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
    1 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
    1 [RAV] Putrefy
    1 [AP] Vindicate
    1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
    1 [7E] Wrath of God               //sometimes comes handy

//Discard
    1 [M10] Duress
    1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
    1 [AT] Hymn to Tourach
    1 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek

//Unsorted
    1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    1 [SHM] Manamorphose            //not necessary, but when comes to blood moon, it can come handy - can be cut
    1 [R] Regrowth
    1 [AP] Phyrexian Arena
    1 [R] Animate Dead              //so synergistic in this deck! can be tutored and easily casted to gain ones more ETB trigger(Shriekmaw or Shredder) or simply return countered Rector.


Due to Animate Dead and Sun Titan deck offers some new possiblities when comboing or when essential creature for combo is missing. So far I miss some cards like Lotus Cobra + Sylvan tutor.

Let me know your thoughts.

Tiggupiru

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM
    1 [CS] Dark Depths
    1 [ZEN] Vampire Hexmage

I don't like this combo at all in HL. The amount of tutoring and trouble you go through to get 20/20 indestructible flier is ultimately not worth it. There are ways to deal with Marit Lage and it can be chumped until forever. It was great combo in extended because people could randomly draw it and execute it very early in the game. Urborg and Thoughtseize into Depths + Hexmage is not something most decks can recover from. In HL, those sick draws are practically nonexistent.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog       //tutorable grave hate

pyyhttu has had success with that. What comes to me, I haven't been on a situation where I would need it, so it stays out. ETB tapped lands is something I want to avoid with this deck.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [WWK] Khalni Garden     //meat for pattern rebirth or Eldrazi conscription or Recuring nightmare
    1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor       //same here

Last tournament I played there was one game where having Dryad Arbor in my deck would have allowed me to combo off, but the game was close to being over at that point anyways. I think I would get annoyed by the downsides these cards have way more often than they would allow me to win a game that I would otherwise lose. I don't deny their synergism and your deck is clearly more combo-oriented than my current build, so it might be correct to play these.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [M11] Sylvan Ranger       //again good meet + mana stability(only one green in cost)
    1 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker

Ranger I like very much. Has been solid since the first time I drew him. I've been unimpressed by Garruk, but it's not too bad of a card. Little weak on the synergy, feels like more purely aggressive card.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [ROE] Eldrazi Conscription

Since the introduction of Hulk, I don't think this card is needed. I have been in situations where this would have helped, but from the top of my head, I cannot remember losing because I did not have this option. I guess this gets better with the aggro-approach, so I probably should re-evaluate this in that context.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [UL] Bone Shredder

I find Skinrender way better. Actually has meat around his bones and can deal with black guys.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver     //can get rid of pesky enchantment/artifact (tutorable with zenith) + meat

You already have Pridemage, no need for three mana 1/1 IMO.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor     //screws other combo, slow down control - I am pretty sattisfied with him

I've been ignoring this because of no synergy. Respectable creature nonetheless, but I really don't want this to be target of opposing Treachery either. Really great in the mirror.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [M11] Sun Titan           //Exelect creature here, it can revive Animate death + majority of dorks

I have also been impressed by this guy recently. Earned his slot, I think.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [WWK] Terastodon          //sometime I wish it is Progenitus, but sometimes it has stunning perfomance - time will tell

95% I rather play against Progenitus, than Terastodon. Progenitus is better, if your opponent has lots of spot removal (or control magic) and the board is somewhat even. Terastodon is better early in the game (nuke two of their lands on turn three and the game is probably over) and if the opponent has troublesome noncreature permanents (pretty self-explanatory). I've been using Terastodon to remove my Bargain when my life dropped too low as well.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [M11] Obstinate Baloth

I switched to Ravenous Baloth when pyyhttu pointed out that it eats Hulks. The synergy makes Ravenous better, me thinks.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [SHM] Manamorphose            //not necessary, but when comes to blood moon, it can come handy - can be cut

Between the one drop accelerants, Sakura and Sylvan Ranger, Blood Moon is probably not an issue most of the time. I think you are better off with a card that does more than cycle.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AM1 [R] Animate Dead              //so synergistic in this deck! can be tutored and easily casted to gain ones more ETB trigger(Shriekmaw or Shredder) or simply return countered Rector.

I had Reanimate in the deck for a while and it was okay, but the life loss was too much in the end. I considered this, but decided the one mana was too much. It has gotten more synergistic with Sun Titan, so it's another card I need to re-evaluate by testing.

Quote from: Ball.Lightning on 22-02-2011, 02:06:27 AMDue to Animate Dead and Sun Titan deck offers some new possiblities when comboing or when essential creature for combo is missing. So far I miss some cards like Lotus Cobra + Sylvan tutor.

I think Lotus Cobra is not a card this deck wants. Decent acceleration and fixing, but too random and unreliable. At two mana and one toughness, it's way more prone to creature removal, so mulliganing your hand around this mythic snake is very risky.

Essah

I don´t know if i should play Terastodon or Woodfall Primus in my build with 7 Husks and Gifts + Intuition.
Terastodon can destroy 3 risky cards but with Wooldfall Primus your Opponent doesn´t get the elephants.

The same question: Sun Titan or Grave Titan?
Pro Sun Titan: can combo with some cards (Saffi,Animate Dead, etc.)
               better vs. board control decks

Pro Grave Titan: good pattern target vs. aggro if we have no sac effect
                 opponent needs another kind of "Grave hate"

Is there a card i can´t see or why is Green Sun´s Zenit a good card for this deck?
It fetchs only green Creatures (mana dorks, Qasali, Finks, KotR, Witness)
There are only Fauna Shaman and Ravenous Baloth for the Combo( I think is it not for fetching Hulk with 8 mana).

Tiggupiru

Quote from: Essah on 22-02-2011, 05:00:49 PM
I don´t know if i should play Terastodon or Woodfall Primus in my build with 7 Husks and Gifts + Intuition.
Terastodon can destroy 3 risky cards but with Wooldfall Primus your Opponent doesn´t get the elephants.

Most of the time, Terastodon destroys two of the opposing permanents and a land from you, which means they can't trade your Terastodon with the elephants. Against decks that has no straight up removal (GR, Burn...etc.), you can just go blowing your own lands and swing with 18 power next turn.

Quote from: Essah on 22-02-2011, 05:00:49 PMThe same question: Sun Titan or Grave Titan?
Pro Sun Titan: can combo with some cards (Saffi,Animate Dead, etc.)
               better vs. board control decks

Pro Grave Titan: good pattern target vs. aggro if we have no sac effect
                 opponent needs another kind of "Grave hate"

I have them both, Grave Titan is probably better if you want to run just one (love that pun, btw). Opponent needs to deal with it or they just lose. Recurring Nightmare + GT is also really sick.

Quote from: Essah on 22-02-2011, 05:00:49 PMIs there a card i can´t see or why is Green Sun´s Zenit a good card for this deck?
It fetchs only green Creatures (mana dorks, Qasali, Finks, KotR, Witness)
There are only Fauna Shaman and Ravenous Baloth for the Combo( I think is it not for fetching Hulk with 8 mana).

Last tournament I cast it twice: Once for Fauna Shaman and once for Hulk for the win. I like to think it as a Fauna Shaman #2, as even at just three mana, Fauna Shaman pretty awesome. Against control I usually go for Yavimaya Elder for card advantage, and against aggro, Finks is pretty sweet. Zenith is good no matter the match-up and the turn you draw it.