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M11

Started by GoblinPiledriver, 11-06-2010, 03:47:55 PM

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Tiggupiru

Couple of cards from SCG.com, Channel/Fireball and MTGSalvation Rumor Mill. The names might not be 100% correct.


Knight Exemplar - A decent follow up of your standard WW play of "random 2/2 knight on the second turn", but I still would not like the idea of giving this guy a slot. Same case as the Captivating Vampire, there might be enough good Knights that this could see play, eventually.

Warmage of Thune - An aggressively costed enchantment hater. Some Naya or Bant decks will probably like to see this, but is far from auto-include. WW traditionally plays too many enchantments to consider this, unless your meta is filled with Moats and such. If there is a BW aggro, they might be delighted to get rid of their own necropotence or phyrexian arena every once in a while.

Hoarding Dragon - The stats are bad and I really don't like the idea of paying five mana for a fabricate that needs to die to get the effect. I just wonder if they are going to print some nice card to go with this in Scars of Mirrodin. Hard to imagine such card being any good, though.

Hardheaded Baloth - Very nice. Built-in protection from discard, and otherwise Loxodon Hierarch (without the ability that everyone likes to think is relevant, but almost never is). If Wizards did not print this to neuter Blightning, I'll eat my breakfast.

Overwhelming Assault - Any deck that wants to play Overrun is not going to be able to can guarantee this as an second Overrun. That being said, work the numbers and this might be a little better. Nothing too spectacular, though.

Kassow-Rossing

Warpriest of Thune doesn't have - as for now - "When Warpriest of Thune enters the battlefield, destroy target enchantment" but "When Warpriest of Thune enters the battlefield, you may destroy target enchantment" which makes is pretty much better in WW!

Overwhelming Assault is clearly better than Overrun. Doubt I would ever make a deck featuring either card though.

Hardheaded Baloth is a mix of Loxodon Hierarch and Wilt-Leaf Liege. This card may be designed to beat Blightning, but I doubt it. Blightning won't be around for long anyways. I am more likely to think this card is build to beat Liliana's Caress decks that will maybe show in the future once M11 is out.

GoblinPiledriver If you ever see a winnner of a Grand Prix featuring a Sun Titan, please note me. I doubt it will happen :)

Kristian

Time Reversal   {3}uu
Sorcery    Mythic Rare
Each player shuffles his or her hand and graveyard into his or her library, then draws seven cards. Exile Time Reversal.

I'm not sure I like Time Reversal. Also I miss trample on overwhelming assault.
There can be only one!

Tiggupiru

Quote from: Kassow-Rossing on 25-06-2010, 11:23:34 AM
Warpriest of Thune doesn't have - as for now - "When Warpriest of Thune enters the battlefield, destroy target enchantment" but "When Warpriest of Thune enters the battlefield, you may destroy target enchantment" which makes is pretty much better in WW!

Then it probably becomes one the staples in that deck. Most likely kicking out Ronom Unicorn or KOALa. Makes this a bit more attractive in Naya and Bant also.

Quote from: Kassow-Rossing on 25-06-2010, 11:23:34 AMOverwhelming Assault is clearly better than Overrun. Doubt I would ever make a deck featuring either card though.

I don't think Overrun type of effects ever see play beyond some token deck, as those are the cards that need the most help. Overrunning in a green aggro decks is a classic example of a "win more" - card.

If you have a board full of 1/1's, this is bad beyond belief. Random 4/4's can boost this to solid proportions, but opponents are always able to respond to this with their spot removal (or bounce) to make this simply bad, which I originally missed. I think I need to revise my statement about this one and claim it too weak to see real play.

Quote from: Kassow-Rossing on 25-06-2010, 11:23:34 AMBlightning won't be around for long anyways. I am more likely to think this card is build to beat Liliana's Caress decks that will maybe show in the future once M11 is out.

Blightning is legal in most (all?) nationals. And I really don't think there is ever going to be Liliana's Caress deck in any format, even if they reprinted Hymn to Tourach.



Time Reversal I like. Not very broken with that mana cost, but draw 7 is draw 7 and some combo deck(s) want to play this.

GoblinPiledriver

#34
There is another Titan showed up out of the nothing: Inferno Titan

Inferno Titan   4RR   
Creature - Giant    Mythic Rare
{R}: Inferno Titan gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
Whenever Inferno Titan enters the battlefield or attacks, it deals 3 damage divided as you choose among one, two or three target creatures and/or players.
Illus. Kev Walker #146/249   6/6

Well this card doesn't remind me of Budgetslayer Angel at all. 3 damage divided at any way like Arc Lightning is nice but with 6 mana this this is clearly expensive.
It's not like the Sun Titan where you can revive  nearly every permanent(creatures, lands, artifacts and enchantments) which has been killed (or being milled).
And the firebreathing ability is just senseless,it's not like vigilance,haste,trample or flying.

Will this be a cycle of 5 Titans?
Well we have to wait and see.
Throw enough goblins at any problem and it should go away. At the very least, there'll be fewer goblins.

Kristian

Squadron Hawk will clearly be a highlander stable :P

Squadron Hawk   {1}w
Creature - Bird    Common
Flying

When Squardon Hawk enters the battlefield, you may search your library for up to three cards named Squadron Hawk, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library.
Illus. Rob Alexander #33/249   1/1
There can be only one!

Tiggupiru

Inferno Titan is clearly lacking. Good news is that it has CIP (or ETB) ability that is not bad at all. The problem is that there are so many better creatures (like Crater Hellion and it's kin). You shouldn't ever need to resort to this, no matter what the deck.

I am interested of the blue and black ones. Assuming it's a cycle.

Quote from: Kristian on 26-06-2010, 04:05:50 AM
Squadron Hawk will clearly be a highlander stable :P

Squadron Hawk   {1}w
Creature - Bird    Common
Flying

When Squardon Hawk enters the battlefield, you may search your library for up to three cards named Squadron Hawk, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library.
Illus. Rob Alexander #33/249   1/1

Yeah, I mean Attack with your Squadron Hawk, use Kiki-Jiki to copy it, respond by condemning the original. This nets you one life for one card and three mana. And if you do all of this after damage has been dealt, you don't even miss a point.

Kassow-Rossing

#37
Quote from: Tiggupiru on 25-06-2010, 03:46:59 PM
I don't think Overrun type of effects ever see play beyond some token deck, as those are the cards that need the most help. Overrunning in a green aggro decks is a classic example of a "win more" - card.

If you have a board full of 1/1's, this is bad beyond belief. Random 4/4's can boost this to solid proportions, but opponents are always able to respond to this with their spot removal (or bounce) to make this simply bad, which I originally missed. I think I need to revise my statement about this one and claim it too weak to see real play.

Yeah well. Overrun was never a good card. Now there's a card that actually CAN be good in some cases. Try Giant Growth'ing your 2/2 and cast Overwhelming Stampede. You get the idea. That said, Overwhelming Stampede also only costs 3GG and not 2GGG which makes a huge difference as well. Now it's possible to play with Blue/White fliers as well.

Quote from: Kristian on 25-06-2010, 12:48:39 PM
... Also I miss trample on overwhelming assault.

Overwhelming Stampede does have Trample.

Quote from: Tiggupiru on 25-06-2010, 03:46:59 PM
Blightning is legal in most (all?) nationals. And I really don't think there is ever going to be Liliana's Caress deck in any format, even if they reprinted Hymn to Tourach.

I actually think you're right: There won't be a Liliana's Caress deck in any format. BUT.. I still don't think Obstinate Baloth was meant to beat Blightning's because Wizards are not that short-sighted. Maybe it's in M11 to beat Blightning for now and a new card in M11 or Scars.

Tiggupiru

Quote from: Kassow-Rossing on 26-06-2010, 01:54:16 PMYeah well. Overrun was never a good card. Now there's a card that actually CAN be good in some cases. Try Giant Growth'ing your 2/2 and cast Overwhelming Stampede. You get the idea. That said, Overwhelming Stampede also only costs 3GG and not 2GGG which makes a huge difference as well. Now it's possible to play with Blue/White fliers as well.

Many token decks played Overrun, and some of them were very successful. It just ends the game, so I would not say it is bad or anything. Very limited in uses, sure, but not bad by any stretch of the imagination.

Giant Growthing a guy and the stampeding leaves you even more exposed to spot removal while also requiring two cards and six mana to pull off. Seems really, really bad. The easier mana cost could be a relevant, but I still predict that this kind of effect is not needed in non-token decks, and in those decks this is way worse than overrun. Token decks are also almost always heavy green so the mana cost is not much of an issue.

Quote from: Kassow-Rossing on 26-06-2010, 01:54:16 PMI still don't think Obstinate Baloth was meant to beat Blightning's because Wizards are not that short-sighted. Maybe it's in M11 to beat Blightning for now and a new card in M11 or Scars.

There are numerous examples of wizards printing a card trying to fix previously printed cards. Tsabo's Web and Teferi's Response were printed trying to quell Rishadan Port. They tried to kill Affinity with several different ways during Kamigawa-block, and when they realized nothing was good enough, they banned all of it. Just before nationals, by the way.

Not to mention, Combustion is clearly printed for one target in mind.



Back on track:

Frost Titan - Even worse than the red one. Makes me a very sad panda :(

Kassow-Rossing

Quote from: Tiggupiru on 26-06-2010, 08:49:42 PM
Many token decks played Overrun, and some of them were very successful. It just ends the game, so I would not say it is bad or anything. Very limited in uses, sure, but not bad by any stretch of the imagination.

Giant Growthing a guy and the stampeding leaves you even more exposed to spot removal while also requiring two cards and six mana to pull off. Seems really, really bad. The easier mana cost could be a relevant, but I still predict that this kind of effect is not needed in non-token decks, and in those decks this is way worse than overrun. Token decks are also almost always heavy green so the mana cost is not much of an issue.

Okay you win. I don't know enough about Overrun to argue any longer.

Quote from: Tiggupiru on 26-06-2010, 08:49:42 PM
There are numerous examples of wizards printing a card trying to fix previously printed cards. Tsabo's Web and Teferi's Response were printed trying to quell Rishadan Port. They tried to kill Affinity with several different ways during Kamigawa-block, and when they realized nothing was good enough, they banned all of it. Just before nationals, by the way.

Not to mention, Combustion is clearly printed for one target in mind.

No Wizards have never - to my record - printed a card to beat another card that would only be legal for three more months. Jund is not even the strongest deck out there any longer, so I really doubt this theory. It is natural for Green to fight the discard effect, because Black is one of the enemy colours to Green. We've seen this several times before. Obstinate is printed to beat Black and not to beat Blightning. Combustion is printed to beat Moneyslayer Angel (probably) but Baneslayer will be legal for 14 more months at least, so that makes sense.

Tiggupiru

Grave Titan - Six mana 10/10? Probably still not good enough, but p/t is very respectable and tokens are something black can use very well outside of combat as well.

Gaea's Revenge - Seven mana is a lot, but 8/5 haste that has practically a shroud are stats that Hypergenesisters will most likely want to sleeve up. Could be included in reanimator, if you find yourself needing hasted shrouds that can end game in three swings. Might be a little better than simic sky swallower, but this is certainly debatable as the lack of evasion really hurts.

Primeval Titan - If there is some sick land combo, this could find it's way in. G/x ramp decks might also be interested of this, if they have a deck full of landy goodiness. This fetching Cabal Coffers + Urborg, and you have all the mana in the world. Especially, if he gets to bash. Valakut is a potent target in red/green ramps, also. I am not surprised if this ends up seeing no play at first, and then Wizards print something that makes this a nice combo enabler.

Kristian

My deck doesn't like that Gaea's Revenge one bit :S... Grave Titan will probably be played in MBC, but don't know about outside those decks.
There can be only one!

Nastaboi

IMO Grave Titan is comparable to Oona, Queen of the Fae which is a respectable finisher and has seen play. I will play it, you don't have to.

Gaea's Revenge will likely go into Hypergenesis. Lack of evasion is really bad, but shroud almost makes it up.
Quote0:13:51 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi plays Invincible Hymn from Hand
0:14:25 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi's life total is now 221 (+213)

Tiggupiru

Quote from: Nastaboi on 28-06-2010, 12:58:36 PM
IMO Grave Titan is comparable to Oona, Queen of the Fae which is a respectable finisher and has seen play. I will play it, you don't have to.

I never really liked Oona, mostly because you needed to untap with her to get value. This at least gives you couple of guys even if they terminate it. This does not require any additional mana to be invested after playing, which is another part of Iona I really hate, you get creatures simply by hitting them to the face. Lack of evasion makes this vulnerable in combat, but if your opponent gangblocks your 6/6 deathtouch guy, that netted you 4 2/2's, you are most likely winning. Only downside, compared to Iona, is that this cannot block fliers. I'd say this is better than Queen of the Fae, so if you find her attractive, this should be a small upgrade.

Only real problem is that I don't see many decks this would go. MBC is kinda obvious, but other than that, I just don't know.

-

Pyretic Ritual - Easy to figure out if you want this in your TPS or R/X storm or something, as it's a functional reprint.

Phylactery Lich - By the time you go through all that trouble of getting artifact into play and finding BBB for the mana cost, this is might not be the most impressive creature on the board. Nice blocker still, might have home in MBC, most likely too hard to tinker with in MBA.

Kristian

Quote from: Tiggupiru on 30-06-2010, 10:22:33 AM
Quote from: Nastaboi on 28-06-2010, 12:58:36 PM
IMO Grave Titan is comparable to Oona, Queen of the Fae which is a respectable finisher and has seen play. I will play it, you don't have to.

I never really liked Oona, mostly because you needed to untap with her to get value. This at least gives you couple of guys even if they terminate it. This does not require any additional mana to be invested after playing, which is another part of Iona I really hate, you get creatures simply by hitting them to the face. Lack of evasion makes this vulnerable in combat, but if your opponent gangblocks your 6/6 deathtouch guy, that netted you 4 2/2's, you are most likely winning. Only downside, compared to Iona, is that this cannot block fliers. I'd say this is better than Queen of the Fae, so if you find her attractive, this should be a small upgrade.

Only real problem is that I don't see many decks this would go. MBC is kinda obvious, but other than that, I just don't know.

-

Pyretic Ritual - Easy to figure out if you want this in your TPS or R/X storm or something, as it's a functional reprint.

Phylactery Lich - By the time you go through all that trouble of getting artifact into play and finding BBB for the mana cost, this is might not be the most impressive creature on the board. Nice blocker still, might have home in MBC, most likely too hard to tinker with in MBA.
You better decide wether it's Iona or Oona you don't like :P
There can be only one!