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14418 Posts in 1055 Topics- by 455 Members - Latest Member: DerKoebs
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Author Topic: High Tide    (Read 15887 times)
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« Reply #15 on: 20-06-2013, 02:00:42 PM »

My latest list. I wanted to test Uncovered Clues, but Seppo insisted on playing Spell Pierce instead. Uncovered Clues definitely has some power, so keep the card in mind.

Also: pictures!
« Last Edit: 20-06-2013, 02:02:15 PM by Nastaboi » Logged

0:13:51 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi plays Invincible Hymn from Hand
0:14:25 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi's life total is now 221 (+213)
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« Reply #16 on: 20-06-2013, 09:17:23 PM »

a pimped high tide deck O_O sweet.
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« Reply #17 on: 25-07-2013, 02:56:32 PM »

So after some tinkering with my own High tide deck (its not that different from nastas version) I was wondering if you guys dont see
the necessity to add heartbeat or mana flare? I mean sure you had to add 2 more nonbasics besides the black ones but you would get another "high tide-ish" effect in return
and could go deeper into the splash by adding past in flames as well.

Its my understanding that you want to search for the non-basics as late as possible so the down side could be that you have to commit yourself early for a fetch for one of the
non basics and could get stucked with off color spells (DT or Ywill )in your hand. I´ve added prismatic lens instead of a signet or talisman to prevent that. Obviously you want lands and not mana artefacts but it can help you to get there.

Some side notes on cardchoices:

Peer through depths - no brainer for me in a deck with 45 spells
Drift of phantasm - its slow i get that but occasionally you can block and it would also search the heartbeat/mana flare (if you go that route)

Besides that I would like to know what you guys think is the hardest matchup and how could it be improved? I guess aggro-control or very fast/desruptive aggro (ww with hate bears or blackish aggro decks with discard) are difficult to beat.

I am wondering if bant-heartbeat would be a better choice since you have the wraths and walls + ramp spell for the aggro decks and still counterspells against the control decks.
Additionally you can add rude awakening + tooth and nail to have some other outs. I understand that this is another deck but these decks work quite similar and I am wondering if you could improve on the hard matchups if you just play heartbeat (I guess you would lose some speed since less tutor spells but get maybe more consistency regarding assembling combo parts (palinchron can be tutored via call and wordly) bc you would have much better defense against aggrocontrol and aggro (but I can see how you could lose more often against midrange which should be an easy matchup for high tide but not heartbeat...)

Just some impressions from me to revive that discussion. I guess the 3
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« Reply #18 on: 25-07-2013, 03:57:33 PM »

I guess I could share my list

High Five:

// Lands
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Windswept Heath
    1 Breeding Pool
    1 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Wooded Foothills
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Watery Grave
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Bayou
    1 Marsh Flats
    14 Snow-Covered Island

// Creatures
    1 Palinchron
    1 Trinket Mage
    1 Peregrine Drake
    1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    1 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Augur of Bolas
    1 Cloud of Faeries

// Spells
    1 Turnabout
    1 Treachery
    1 Cryptic Command
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Compulsive Research
    1 Flash of Insight
    1 Mind's Desire
    1 Time Spiral
    1 Dizzy Spell
    1 Impulse
    1 Remand
    1 Counterspell
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Serum Visions
    1 Ponder
    1 Brainstorm
    1 High Tide
    1 Frantic Search
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Mana Drain
    1 Meditate
    1 Snap
    1 Sapphire Medallion
    1 Sleight of Hand
    1 Force of Will
    1 Memory Lapse
    1 Intuition
    1 Reality Spasm
    1 Rude Awakening
    1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Rampant Growth
    1 Call to Mind
    1 Explore
    1 Preordain
    1 Candelabra of Tawnos
    1 Mystical Teachings
    1 Farseek
    1 Gigadrowse
    1 Harrow
    1 Condescend
    1 Into the North
    1 Search for Tomorrow
    1 Muddle the Mixture
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Chromatic Sphere
    1 Chromatic Star
    1 Opt
    1 Gitaxian Probe
    1 Peer Through Depths
    1 Ideas Unbound
    1 Timetwister
    1 Regrowth
    1 Heartbeat of Spring
    1 Wheel of Fortune
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Foresee
    1 Land Grant
    1 Kodama's Reach
    1 Cultivate
    1 Helm of Awakening
    1 Hidden Strings
    1 Uncovered Clues

Idea behind this is to splash EVERYTHING. Since you are splashing for all the colors, you get to run more fetches -> more consistent manabase. It's stupid, but the math works. The deck doesn't play anything from white and only a few non-blue, non-green spells. Tundra is there just to make your Windswept Heath not a dead card midgame.

I actually like this list a ton. It's way faster than the regular builds since you have the green ramp, which is the stone cold nuts. It's not as consistent, but because you are fast enough, you don't need to play any anti-tempo cards to slow aggro down. You can just win before they do. Green ramp spells are also decent in the middle of the combo if you have the mana as they thin the deck, allow more shuffles and generate more mana over several untappers. Harrow also nets you a mana even with one High Tide/Heartbeat.

The reason I don't play this (or any High Tide list for that matter) is that I don't find them consistent enough, but I am all about stable decks and very few combo decks are consistent enough for my taste buds.
« Last Edit: 25-07-2013, 04:02:01 PM by Tiggupiru » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: 26-07-2013, 09:24:05 PM »

High tide and Hearthbeat decks are two completely different things in my eyes. High tide wins in one BIG turn while, hearth beat wins when hits six lands and the win is spread over several turns. Hearthbeat is slower usually two turns slover than Tide deck. Everything usually happens on 6 lands, when Tide is fine with 5 in some extreme cases 4 lands are sufficient too (speaking about Tendril's Agony version).

It realy depends on the build. There are at least two kinds of hearthbeat decks - mine Bant or Hot bant version(version, that Tabris presented during in his playtesting video serie lately), that is VERY VERY defensive and has very possitive agro matchup and usually UGR version of the deck, that is all in and packs minimum disruption. My wote is for defensive aproach. Opponent can stick Thalia or Gaddock or even Mindcensor on turn 2 and Winter Orb later on and the game is usually over. Counters can't cover everything.. Agro is too fast now and getting stucked with one land while opponent having 3 creatures on turn 2 is just awful. Combo (using LANDS to win) is not faster than agro if not defending itself.

I would say, that hearth beat has possitve agro matchup, even more possive midrange matchup. When facing control it is not that simple to say - i would vote for favorable. Extremly fast combo could hurt hearthbeat. Burn might not be best matchup either.

Tide is different beast - it has VERY bad matchup against extremely fast agro, since we need 4-5 lands to win and stuff to stall agro, that this deck packs might not be sufficient. Midrange and controls are best matchups, since they do not have any clock and this decks pact all the counterspells in the world ;-)

Anyway I am currently playing hearthbeat all over the tournaments. I will post my current decklist next week or so. So you can Peek.

As for the splash for HT deck - I dont think it is necessary. There is already 5 mana Artifact version of Mirrary's Wake. 2 such effects are enought. I do not want to provide for opponents wastelands and Dust Bowls no other targets.
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