[M10] changes

[Mythrandir]

Well, not HL related, but still it will affect us all...

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/42a

I really don't like some of the rules changes... Specially combat damage: RIP mogg fanatic.

I think it will be very hard for long time players to get used...

[Nastaboi]

IMO this weakens aggro strategies a bit against control. Along with fanatic, cards like Quasali Pridemage and Whitemani Lion lose some of their punch, and combat tricks in general become a lot worse while removal becomes better. Control decks playing filterlands/signets/other doublelands don't have to adjust their play to avoid taking mana burn any more which is often relevant. OTOH Sakura-Tribe Elder is worse now.

[lio123]

I hate this changes very much. Change RFG for Exile or At the end of turn for at the beginning of end step. Its acceptable. It doesnt have infulence on the game. When i saw that manaburn will not exist anymore, i thought it's some bad joke. But ok, its acceptable. But remove stack in combat? It makes from magic some stupid game such as a lord of the rings TCG. I hope they will return it back. Any long time player can't accept it.

They wrote they're doing it for newbies, but what about old cards? It will be more confusing for them. 

And their arguments such as "How is that Mogg Fanatic killing two creatures? How did that creature kill mine but make your Nantuko Husk big enough to survive? How can you Unsummon your creature and have it still deal damage? While many of us may be used to the way things are now, it makes no sense in terms of a game metaphor and only a bit more sense as a rule."

And now i've just noticed another change. You can't divide damage in combat. Its totally stupid. Now you can only sit and tap your mana and creatures. You don't have to think in the game.

I hope that someone is going to make a petition for wizards against these new awful rules.

PS: I'm building HL RB goblin deck as my first and only HL deck. I spend lot of money for these cards. But it doesn't have sense to continue in building, bcs goblins will be poor. No "combing" with goblin sharpshooter and goblin sledder or something like him after damage on stack? Well done, Wizards, well done ....

[grizzledmage]

I am in complete agreement with the comments posted above. I am NOT happy about these changes at all.

Now, having said that, I do seem to vaguely recall similar screams and protests at the 6th edition release back in 1999. Will these changes make things better or worse? Ask me again in 2019, but I am not optimistic at this moment.

I may soon have to change my name from 'grizzledmage' to 'graymage.'

[Sturmgott]

I am currently considering to ignore some of these changes "officially" for the HL format, especially that combat damages no longer uses the stack and that the attacking creature's controller may no longer freely decide how to divide the attackers combat damage to multiple blockers.

Your opinion on that?

[lio123]

This would be nice, but if someone would play HL with old rules and some competitive format with new rules, it could be very difficult for him. 

[Nastaboi]

I am currently considering to ignore some of these changes "officially" for the HL format, especially that combat damages no longer uses the stack and that the attacking creature's controller may no longer freely decide how to divide the attackers combat damage to multiple blockers.

Your opinion on that?

In short: That would kill the Highlander format. People who play other Magic will adopt the new rules, and then Highlander would be a whole different game with no more official support, and have as many players as Wizards of the Middle Earth or any other forgotten TCG.

[grizzledmage]

Basically what lio123 and nastaboi have just said. If the rules of the gameplay in HL change from the rest of Magic, then (a) it would no longer be Magic but instead a derivative (albeit possibly a better derivative), and (b) for those of us who play HL as well as other "mainstream" versions of MtG, it would be difficult and confusing (at least it would for me). This is, by the way, one of the reasons I don't like Elder Dragon Highlander, as there are too many tweaks that depart significantly from mainstream Magic play rules.

[Mythrandir]

I am currently considering to ignore some of these changes "officially" for the HL format, especially that combat damages no longer uses the stack and that the attacking creature's controller may no longer freely decide how to divide the attackers combat damage to multiple blockers.

Your opinion on that?

Although i´m not entirely happy with the changes, i really don't think we should ignore them. It would be very confusing for players that play in other formats to be able to do one thing with mogg fanatic (again with the mogg fanatic) and all of a sudden not being able to to so in another... or vice-versa. Specially because it could lead to erros during gameplay... "doohh, forgot damage goes to stack here on HL... " or "damn.. forgot damage doesnt go to stack anymore..." And i feel we should avoid these.

Gameplay will surely change a lot, no more combat tricks (like we were use to...) suddenly ravager doesnt seem as powerful now... let's see where this will lead, and i agrre with grizzled, ppl always scream "this will be the over of MTG" happened in 96, happen with the new frame, happen with PW.

We should take things very slowly

@Nastaboi, do you really think this affects more aggro?

Btw, Mana drain just got strictly better than counterspell! lol

[GoblinPiledriver]

To Sturmgott
We mustn`t separate us from the offical magic the gathering. Today singelton is played in magic online format. If we willintly divide us from wizard, wizard can`t take us seriusly anymore. He must build highlander as a leading format, so that wizard can`t ignore us. And so make highlander as a offical format, as the fans wanted them.

To all
In this case many things of the changes are good for us. Magic becomes simplier, and so new players can lern the game quiker( and don`t be shocked by sakura, mogg fanatic or unsummon(beginners dont understand them)).
I know many people who tryed the game and stopped it after such a appearance. 
With new players highlander could be more popular as before.

So we can`t take opposition to the new rules. We had to stay focused on our main goal, forcing wizard to introduce highlander as a real card(non online(or not only)) format.

Greetings

[Mythrandir]

To all
In this case many things of the changes are good for us. Magic becomes simplier, and so new players can lern the game quiker( and don`t be shocked by sakura, mogg fanatic or unsummon(beginners dont understand them)).
I know many people who tryed the game and stopped it after such a appearance. 

There are far more complicated stuff in MTG than that, for example the layer system, now that's is a headache rules... But you're probably right, it simplifies the game: Is it bad, is it good? is it meh?, lets see...

[Sturmgott]

Okay, I have reserved a domain on which I plan to at least do a "collection of signatures" to make WotC take back the changes in combat rules:

http://www.pro-dots.com

Pro Damage on the Stack - pro-dots.com!

Currently I am waiting for the domain to be set up. While we wait for this, I have one appeal to those among you who are (almost) native speakers of English: I would like you to phrase WHY we want WotC to take the changes in Combat Handling back before these rules get effective. We need a short but convincing text to a) tell WotC why we want to put damage on the stack now and in the future and b) to tell people on this website why they should "sign" the petition.

Who can help? Maybe we can use this forum to phrase something together in some progressive steps!

[Mythrandir]

Okay, I have reserved a domain on which I plan to at least do a "collection of signatures" to make WotC take back the changes in combat rules:

http://www.pro-dots.com

Pro Damage on the Stack - pro-dots.com!

Currently I am waiting for the domain to be set up. While we wait for this, I have one appeal to those among you who are (almost) native speakers of English: I would like you to phrase WHY we want WotC to take the changes in Combat Handling back before these rules get effective. We need a short but convincing text to a) tell WotC why we want to put damage on the stack now and in the future and b) to tell people on this website why they should "sign" the petition.

Who can help? Maybe we can use this forum to phrase something together in some progressive steps!

I´m already thinking about it, but it's really hard, i´ve been through loads of pages over at salvation, and there are, unfortuantely good and bad arguments for and against damage on stack (DOT).
I don't think we can go with the ones like mogg or sakura, because these translate into very simplistic and plain strategy, without any real thoughtout plan.
Also i have the idea that WOTC isn't really telling us the whole story.. because stack is everywhere in the game, so the argument of "confusion on DOT" for me doesn't really seem valid, and there are far more complicated stuff, like the layer system. So without yelling "conspiracy", IMO i think they just want to reverse to what original creatures with "sac" were intended to. And with this in mind i think we must be able to make very solid and strong arguments towards the benefit of the interaction provided by DOT whithout recurring towards the example of mogg fanatic and other 2 to 1 card advantage provided by these sac creatures..


EDITED: This weekend i want to playtest with the new rules, so i'll be looking for players (Highlander format only), if anyone out there has the will and time let me know please.

[Sturmgott]

The petition site is now set up and ready for all of you damage on stack lovers to sign:

http://www.pro-dots.com

We already have more than 500 signatures in less than 2 days.

Spread the link in every forum, to every icq contact, in comments...

[Vazdru]

There are always two sides of a story. Here comes the thesis of Pat Chapin (US Pro) to the question "Damage on the stack or not":

Under the old system, when a Savannah Lion attacks and I have a Sakura-Tribe Elder, there is only really one play. Block, damage on stack, sac. This is the same play that every “trick” revolves around. The correct play is 99.9% damage on the stack, do the trick. That is not strategic depth! You are not a good player because you know that you should always put damage on the stack then do the trick. You could teach a four-year old that!

Now there will be some tension. Do you kill the Lion or get the extra land? It may be an easy decision most of the time, but before the change it was never really a decision at all. If you are imaging all of the times you won’t be able to damage on the stack and sac anymore, just remember, your opponents will be in the same boat. The ADDED strategic depth will probably favor you because, if you are the type of player that reads StarCityGames.com, you are probably going to be favored in games that require real decision making. If you are imagining being the guy with the Sakura in this example, imagine it from the perspective of the guy with the Lion. Before, you could not attack. Now, you actually have a realistic option.

Imo it doesn't exist "black or white" respectively "right or wrong" answering the question if its a tragedy or advancement to get those new rules. From my side I will arrange with new rules like i did in former times (yes i play since beta  ). The only thing I do not like while thinking of the new rules is the fact that lots of cards I've collected lost much of their power (and prices  ).