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R/G Beatdown

Started by Fish, 25-02-2009, 01:35:45 PM

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Orech

one question guys. what is a good toll against Reccuring Nightmare in this deck ? i was thinking about Loaming Shaman but he lacks instant speed or phyrexian revoker but he is to fragile.

MMD

Feel free to browse through my MKM account:

http://www.magickartenmarkt.de/index.php?mainPage=showSellerChart&idInfoUser=13199

I also have a huge amount of chinese and japanese foil HL staples not listed yet,  which I would like to downgrade to english foil. Just let me know!

Orech

and except that guy ? any other options ? dont wanna buy WBG commander just for this one card

pyyhttu

I did a query to magiccards.info and there's really no GR based instant graveyard hate against Recurring Nightmare, except Krosan Reclamation. And you don't want that. Somehow I'm reading from between the lines that you're looking for a specific answer against Recurring Nightmare, and perhaps the Lark combo you lost against?

In that case I'd recommend just to mulligan accordingly and fix your mana curve knowing you have a hard match up ahead. Concentrate on doing what your deck does best: disrupt your opponent's mana base, and burn his small critters before he gets the Recurring Nightmare engine going.

tonytahiti

#34
obviously you dont have to buy the whole deck. you can trade for it or buy singles. the ooze seems really good and i think you need him, he is one of the better green beaters for 2 mana and incredibly versatile. the ooze it is.
actually i think almost every green deck wants him. there is just too many things he is good against.

reveillark/karmic guide (and whole pattern combo)
eternal witness
volraths stronghold/academy ruins
tarmogoyf
kotr
gifts ungiven/intuition graveyard shenanigans
body double
recurring nightmare
vengevine
bloodghast
wrecks reanimator decks.

and gains life and gets bigger, so it does it by the way. i dont know how you can not play this guy. and if you dont have the mana, its a bear at least. there is no downside. pick him up now, i believe he will hit 10 euros soon, since his commander deck seems to have the lowest value.
Winner - Pro HL Cup, Prague 2002
Winner - Highlander Regional Masters, Phuket 2006
Winner - Sunrise Trophy Run, Hawaii 2006
Winner - North Dakota HL Championships 2007
Winner - Tahiti "One And Only"-Cup #3, 2009
Winner - Gio di Gio Seria, Florenz, 2016
Winner - Jail or be Jailed, Berlin, 2017

Ball.Lightning

One of the best RG graveyard hosers (except Relic of Progenitus) is definetelly Ground Seal. It cantrips and shuts down graveyards completely.

Fish

#36
Hello guys. It is quite some time since I wrote here and I hope you wont consider it gravedigging, but I have noticed there has been new topic about RG here.

Here is the link to my old topic: http://www.magicplayer.org/forum/index.php?topic=203.0 It is almost three years but since then I have improved my deck quite a lot and I would like to share it in this topic.

First of all I would like to mark here the sentence from "Georg B" that changed the whole point of view for me on RG beatdown deck.

QuoteWell, if you like to play ceap creatures, play Zoo or WW. Honestly!
The power of RG is its 4-Drops.
Of course you should play a good number of ceap creatures, but there are so many good midrange drops (e.g. Blastoderm, Ravenous Baloth, Keldon Champion, Flametongue Kavu...).

I see Orech here has quite a lot 1cc drops here I really dont like. If you want to go this way, zoo is realy MUCH better option.

I post my decklist in this new topic, I hope you dont mind. I also put some comments on cards and also I put there some comments about recent changeds. I might have skipped some new cards or any other interesting cards in the last few years and I would be happy if you could point them out for me.

My latest decklist looks like this, comments are included:

1cc:
Kird Ape
Birds of Paradise
Fyndhorn Elves
Wild Nacatl
Grim Lavamancer
Chan Lightning
Llanowar Elves
Firebolt
Noble Hierarch
Lightning Bolt

2cc:
Arc Trail
Incinerate
Wild Mongrel / I changed him for Scavenging Ooze, Mongrel isnt good anymore
Nest Invader / I changed him for Solemn Simulacrum
Tarmogoyf
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Fauna Shaman
Radha, Heir to Kheld
Viridian Emissary
Tin Street Hooligan
Sylvan Ranger / this might be a little strange but it gives me exactly what I need in this deck, but I dont blame you if you consider him weak; for me, extra land in my hand usually helps; I am also considering to put Wall of Blossoms here but it cant attack even for one in late game, has some other advantages though
Magma Jet
Lotus Cobra
River Boa
Sudden Shock

3cc:
Kitchen Finks
Beast Within / I just love this card, its primary targets might be cards like Baneslayer Angel or Batterskull but it has many many other options (for example you can use it on your own Kitchen Finks or Viridian Emissary)
Call of the Herd
Great Sable Stag
Krosan Grip / After all games I played I have to say this card wins games and split second is really not just a bonus there
Eternal Witness
Sword of Fire and Ice / I am playing two swords these days but I am considering to put them both out, even those cards are great and it might look strange, usually I want to have creature instead of them and I definitely dont want to have 2 in my hand
Burning-Tree Shaman / the last thing that holds this guy in my deck is his 4 thoughness, it is a good card but at the present deck build it usually hurts me more than my enemy; yesterday I got Fire Imp and I will be happy to change it for shaman; I also need Vithian Renegades  in my deck as a 3cc GREEN artifact removal (viridian shaman is not enough) but I am not sure what to put out yet
Staggershock
Fulminator Mage
Goblin Ruinblaster
Boggart Ram-Gang
Yavimaya Dryad / the only 3 cc mana ramp I am willing to play in my deck at the moment, it has 2 power and brings me the land to play unlike Yavimaya Druid
Char
Sword of Feast and Famine / already mentioned
Troll Ascetic

4cc:
Avalanche Riders
Garruk Relentless / I am testing this guy but havent seen him in my hand too often, he is really hiding from me
Blastoderm
Chameleon Colossus / this guy is a bit protection from black overkill in my deck, I mean he is great but I am considering to replace him with Inferno Titan
Flametongue Kavu
Keldon Champion /
Bloodbraid Elf
Wickerbough Elder
Obstinate Baloth
Birthing Pod / I dont have Birthing Pod deck like blue version mentioned here somewhere and I dont really need to have it every game but when I draw it, it usually wins me the game
Phantom Centaur
Hero of Oxid Ridge
Ravenous Baboons
Giant Solifuge
Garruk Wildspeaker
Thrun, the Last Troll
Chandra, the Firebrand / testing this lady and she seems really great, especially her -2 ability

5cc:
Primal Command / this card gives me all the options I need and was given to the deck primary for lifegain and more lifegain when I find Baloth or Finks but I found out it is even better than that
Siege-Gang Commander
Acidic slime
Deranged Hermit / this might look strange but this card gives me the advantage in late game against those fast and swarmy zoo and white weenie decks, it very often find it with Birthing Pod or Greens Sun Zenith too

6cc:
Primeval Titan / at the moment the only 6cc card I want to play in my deck, but I hope his red friend will join him soon

Xcc:
Green Sun's Zenith

Lands:
6 Forest
5 Mountain
Fire-Lit Thicket
Dread Statuary
Wooded Foothills
Pendelhaven
Arid Mesa
Wasteland
Blinkmoth Nexus
Tectonic Edge
Dust Bowl
Verdant Catacombs
Misty Rainforest
Raging Ravine
Taiga
Treetop Village
Copperline Gorge
Rootbound Crag
Scalding Tarn
Bloodstained Mire
Gargoyle Castle
Windswept Heath
Rishadan Port / now hold your balls, there used to be Tattermunge Maniac instead of this card in my deck but since I want to play more 6cc cards and since I found Tattermunge Maniac really stupid card, I was happy with this change; Port also gives me more help against those manlands and against my nightmare Maze of Ith
Karplusan Forest
Mishra's Factory
Stomping Ground
Mutavault

So you can see my deck isnt that fast aggro deck anymore. It has very strong 3cc and 4cc drops and is also cappable of very strong late games.
I rely on quite a bunch of LD package I included here and quite a number of non-basic utility lands. I am even considering to put Crop Rotation in my deck but I really dont want to have empty cards in my deck.
Here I say that my goal is that all cards in my deck (except lands) do something right at the moment I draw them. It means that I dont have bad topdecks.
At this moment the only cards that dont fit this strategy are these:
Krosan Grip – very bad topdeck indeed but this card is really must in my deck
Birthing Pod – when I dont have creatures on board I am not happy to see this card as a topdeck but that doesnt happen so much and it helps me MUCH more than it doesnt
Swords – as Birthing Pod, these cards are very bad topdeck when I dont have creatures but the good thing is, I have manlands quit often, the bad thing is, I might not have enough mana to use manlands and to equipt a sword; I also mentioned I usually want some kind of creature more; all in all, we will see in testing

For Orech: I begun with very similar decklist as you have. After a lot of testing I found out, that list was bad and you want to have stronger mid-game than strong beginning. Really take zoo if you have this intention.

Now some commnets on the cards you play and I dont (not all of them though):

Jackall Pup – you are not zoo
Mogg Fanatic – does nothing these days
Jungle Lion – he is just bad and you are not zoo
Goblin Guide – a lot of people love this guy but I really dont like him in my strategy and with my luck it always helps my opponent more than me
Rancor – I dont like bad topdecks and you are not a zoo
Skyshroud Elite – it always hurts you when you dont want to, usually people have non-basic, but when they see this guy first round on the table, they just dont play non-basic one or two rounds and it is usually enough for this guy to be weak as hell
Cursed Scroll – after many games I found this card useless for me, say want you want, think what you want, play it if you need but I dont like this card in my deck

Keldon Marauders – this creature dies itself after some time, I really dont want my creatures to do this to me
Price of Progress – I play too many non-basic lands and this card would usually be a draw for me, sometimes a loss and almost never a win
Volcanic Hammer – I dont  like this card especially because it is a sorcery
Searing Blaze – I didnt even consider playing this card ever

Hells Thunder – I dont want my creatures to die eot
Magus of the Moon – I used to play with along with Blood Moon but I just dont like playing both of them, those cards are just great and you can play them of course, I dont do that also because I have too many non-basic lands
Sword of War and Peace – this sword is just not good enough
Flame Javelin – really ?
Molten Rain – when I want to have LD in my deck, it has to be a creature, this card is also very bad topdeck
Rift Bolt – you have better options
Sulfuric Vortex – I doesnt fit my strategy, but this card win games when played correctly
Koth – I never tested him and I have no clue if he can be any good in RG deck

You have no 5cc and 6cc drops. Well that is a plan too but not for RG in my opinion. I played some number of games and I found out I REALLY want a late game plan (Siege-Gang, Primal Command, Titans). I hated when I had 8 mana and drew Tattermunge Maniac (or something like that). I also hated when I played Bloodbraid Elf and I saw Birds of Paradise or Llanowar Elf but there is nothing I can do about it, is it? At least I dont play so many 1cc and 2cc drops.


If anyone has some questions, suggestions or is willing to discuss anything about RG decks I will be happy to see them.

Vazdru

Quote from: Fish on 16-12-2011, 01:05:32 PM
Here is the link to my old topic: http://www.magicplayer.org/forum/index.php?topic=203.0 It is almost three years but since then I have improved my deck quite a lot and I would like to share it in this topic.

both topics have been merged
Far below the earth
Where the demons hunt the souls of those that sleep
In the city of the Vazdru and the Drin
Where the black flame burns inside the palace fountain.

DarkLight

Here is a List of my Friend ...

Artifact [8]
AEther Vial
Ankh of Mishra
Bonesplitter
Cursed Scroll
Grafted Wargear
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of Fire and Ice

Creatures [39]
Arbor Elf
Bords of Paradise
Bloodbraid Elf
Boggard Ram-Gang
Burning-Tree Shaman
Countryside Crusher
Dryad Sophisticate
Fauna Shaman
Flametongue Kavu
Frenzied Goblin
Fyndhorn Elves
Garruk's Companion
Goblin Ruinblaster
Granger Guildmage
Grim Lavamancer
Hero of Oxid Ridge
Jungle Lion
Keldon Marrauders
Kird Ape
Kichen Finks
Llanowar Elves
Lotus Cobra
Magus of the Moon
Noble Hierarch
Phyrexian Metamorph
Rip-Clan Crasher
River Boa
Scab-Clan Mauler
Skyshroud Elite
Stormblood Berserker
Stromkirk Noble
Tarmogoyf
Tattermunge Maniac
Thrun, the Last Troll
Tin Street Hooligan
Troll Ascetic
Twinblad Slasher
Vithian Renegades
Wild Nactl

Enchantment [4]
Blood Moon
Rancor
Sulfuric Vortex
Sylvan Library

Instant [7]
Brimstone Volley
Burst Lightning
Incinerate
Krosan Grip
Lightning Bolt
Magma Jet
Price of Progress

Land [33]
Arid Mesa
Barbarian Ring
Bloodstained Mire
Copperline Gorge
8x Forest
Horizon Canopy
Mishra's Factory
Misty Rainforest
7x Mountain
Raging Ravine
Rootbound Crag
Scalding Tarn
Stomping Ground
Taiga
Tectonic Edge
Treetop Village
Verdant Catacombs
Wasteland
Windswept Heath
Wooded Foothills

Planeswalker [2]
Garruk Wildspeaker
Sarkhan Vol

Sorcery [7]
Chain Lightning
Fire Ambush
Green Sun's Zenith
Rift Bolt
Ruination
Volcanic Hammer
Wheel of Fortune

Quote
Well, if you like to play ceap creatures, play Zoo or WW. Honestly!
The power of RG is its 4-Drops.
Of course you should play a good number of ceap creatures, but there are so many good midrange drops (e.g. Blastoderm, Ravenous Baloth, Keldon Champion, Flametongue Kavu...).

Sorry but in my opinion RG Beats is small creatures (1-3cc) and Zoo (3-4cc) because in Zoo you have a 3rd colour which can handle creatures like Baneslayer Angel or something like that. I was also a RG Beats player in the past but my deck changed into Naya Zoo and now its 4C-Aggro ^^.
Formerly known as With-FuLL-Force.

Ball.Lightning

#39
Hi,
I would like to do little consideration on how good might mana denial be in RG deck. Most of LD spells are usually realy bad topdecks lategame. Majority of tier one deck has realy low curve, that 2-3 lands are usually sufficient. LD spell destroys land that can be overabundant to oponent and not improve board possiton at the same time. I think, that deck that can possibly take advantage of LD spells are realy fast agros=many agresive 1cc and 2cc spells. Playing dudes first few turns and then start disrupting lands and deny oponent his own plan seems like a good idea. The problem here is stability of the deck in my eyes. One cannot afford to play something like 10 or more LD spells, because there is not so much good of them. Playing less of them means, that maybee you smash one maybee two for the game. This does not necessarily need to be enough. Fast dudes can be killed and even though you slow down your opponent, he will get enough time to recover and get to lategame where LD strategy would suck. The problem here is in deck stability and power level of LD cards, that is generally underwhelming (unles Armageddon, Ravages, Winter orb, B2B, Ruination).

LD as main strategy suffers even with more flaws. LD controls are vulnerable to few fast creatures that get under LD lock down, and many more. Usually deck has low power leves, lacks utility character,...

RG offers several creatures/spells, that are worse or better each in different way: Fulminator mage, A.Riders, Acidic Slime, Ravenous Baboons, Goblin Ruinblaster, Molten Rain, Pillage, ?Plow under. The main problem of these cards is that they come down late, that destroying one land to opponent does not need to mean end of game. There certainly will be games, where it will work, but I fear that there is too few of good LD, that this plan is completely unrealiable. Playing one or two might be good idea as tutor target for some pesky lands like maze.

I would better avoid those spells and would play cards, that are difficult for opponent o deal with or that brings advantage in the long run.

pyyhttu

While it's clear that LD is not a tier deck, it might have it's moments if metagamed right, and if opponent's stubbornly try to build that perfect curve.

I went 3-0 (2-1, 2-1, 2-1) in small local tourney (8+ players) with this: http://iki.fi/~pyyhttu/magic/highlander/LD.txt

Matchups were RDW, GWb-midrange and GW-midrange. Most games were won when was on play.