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The price of casual format

Started by pyyhttu, 02-01-2009, 11:25:56 PM

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Kassow-Rossing

It doesn't have to be a fair card. It just has to be not TOO unfair to play. And it is not too unfair to play. It's a good card. Not a game winning card always

As is Ancestral Recall. I think it should be tested. It can always be removed again

Mythrandir

Quote from: Kassow-Rossing on 26-03-2009, 06:29:35 PM

As is Ancestral Recall. I think it should be tested. It can always be removed again

The problem with the remove again, is that it ain't a cheap investment. Even banning and unbanning things like LoA is a bit frustrating. This would be worse, it it's going to be unbanned, it would have to be a 100% sure this wouldn't warp the format.

Nastaboi

Sorry for the necromancy. I just broke down some of the most expensive cards in the format and their effects in a Finnish MTG site, and I thought mise well translate it here.

Library: Strong card with a problem in randomness: really good only in opening hand. Tempo loss balances a bit and makes it not an autoinclude in every deck, but gives random free wins and thus profits those who have been able to bought one.

Workshop and Bazaar: Good but not too good. Problems lie in their price and the fact that they are essential cards for some arctypes, thus making those decks unavailable for people without said lands.

Ravages of War, Burning of Xinye, Imperial Recruiter: Far too pricy for their effect, and usually not too integral parts of a deck's strategy. However, one should really think twice before playing Armageddon deck without Ravages, for excample.

Timetwister: Strong card which I didn't see coming out from the banned list. Combos have been slow and inconsistent enough to not wreak havoc this far, but this is taking it to the edge. One can build a combo deck without the card, but don't really want to as long as it's allowed.

Grim Tutor: Would see more play if only price wasn't over a hundred euros. Strong but not too strong.

Moat, The Abyss, Nether Void: Cards with unique effect and worth some monetary investment, though you'll be still paying some extra for just Legends expansion symbol.

Conclusion: Though it is against the original idea of the format, I could see some bigger tournament been run with five proxies allowed. Then again, allowing these hard-to-get cards that are not too powerful (except Library) yet essential to some strategies is also against the idea of easy-to-access format.
Quote0:13:51 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi plays Invincible Hymn from Hand
0:14:25 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi's life total is now 221 (+213)

Mythrandir

IMO, cutting the card pool, just because of price isn't a good idea.
Although this format isn't as easy-to-access as t2, it isn't as hard as most ppl think. Things like RDW, RG beatz, Gobs, WW. don't have that many expensive cards and still they are great decks. Like in all formats a monetary investment is needed, obviously.

As for you review i agree with some:
LoA is definitely one of the most troublesome, because as "easy" as it popped out of the banned list it may pop back into the banned list, so until i "know" this is a stable card in our card pool, i won't buy one.

Workshop and bazaar although very expensive cards, like you said, are very specific to certain archtypes, so if you don't want to buy these just go for one of the other archtypes in our format. if you really love that arhtype then make an effort to buy one ;)

Timetwister and all p9, IMO, are just too expensive, and yes i know there are CE, but WOTC will sooner allow proxies than CE cards.

grim tutor and p3 cards shouldn't be allowed, i think they are a very expensive investment for cards that don't play anywhere else.

As for things like moat, abyss and the likes, i don't think they are that expensive.. if ppl bought goyf foils during its peak value, they can as easily buy an italian moat...

pyyhttu

Quote from: MythrandirIMO, cutting the card pool, just because of price isn't a good idea.

Quote from: Mythrandirgrim tutor and p3 cards shouldn't be allowed, i think they are a very expensive investment for cards that don't play anywhere else.

Aren't these statements of yours little bit conflicting? Besides Portal 3 has more to offer to this format than the set currently gives to any other sanctioned format like Vintage or Legacy (in terms of different playable cards you can try in competetive decks).

Mythrandir

I see why you said conflicting. Let me try and explain better:

One thing is to have cards 100-200â,¬ that are playable on other formats. The other is too have cards of the same price just for this format (P3), which means ppl "have" to buy specifically for this.
As for p3 offering more, i really don't see it that way... i only see the same cards that are already available but with different name... Now consider for example the price of an Armageddon and the price of Ravages of war. For me this is the problem with P3: turning a cheap card into a very expensive card.

Regarding P9, they are just too expensive and format breaking, IMO, to just be allowed, it's just not a matter of the price, it's the price combine with the game effect. They are far more relevant in game play than, for example a 100â,¬ mana drain. (and P9 are "bit" more expensive than a mana drain or even a workshop).

It's not as if a turn 1 workshop isn't game relevant, but workshop is a very specific card for a very specific archtype, unlike P9 that are auto-include in almost every deck that can support them (colors).