Main site (German)   |    HighlanderMagic.info
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
Login with username, password and session length
13946 Posts in 1007 Topics- by 443 Members - Latest Member: GeistOfStMeidling
Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: UW Control    (Read 3158 times)
Aubrey
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


View Profile
« on: 08-12-2008, 01:40:20 AM »

Hi,

this is a deck I worked on quiet a long time, but now I think I'm very close to what I would call the finished list. For now I don't see any changes which could make the deck better. But nether the less there are some changes I still think about. Here I need your help.
First the list:

//Lands (36)

Academy Ruins   
Kor Haven      
Tundra         
Rishadan Port      
Hallowed Fountain      
Windswept Heath   
Snow-Covered Island 12x      
Snow-Covered Plains 6x            
Karakas         
Ghost Quarter   
Seat of the Synod   
Maze of Ith   
Polluted Delta   
Ancient Den      
Wasteland         
Tolaria West      
Mystic Gate      
Flooded Strand   
Adarkar Wastes      
Urza's Factory      

// Spells (50)

Thirst for Knowledge
Impulse   
Counterspell   
Stroke of Genius   
Austere Command   
Disrupting Shoal      
Mana Leak   
Relic of Progenitus   
Remand   
Engineered Explosives      
Syncopate      
Cryptic Command   
Faerie Trickery   
Forbid   
Hinder      
Dispeller's Capsule      
Parallax Wave   
Sensei's Divining Top      
Dissipate   
Flash of Insight   
Enlightened Tutor      
Back to Basics   
Force of Will   
Swords to Plowshares      
Condemn   
Gifts Ungiven   
Disenchant   
Vedalken Shackles      
Decree of Justice   
Land Tax      
Moat   
Phyrexian Furnace      
Oblivion Ring   
Sword of Fire and Ice      
Condescend      
Hallowed Burial   
Exile      
Absorb   
Misdirection   
Fact or Fiction   
Pulse of the Fields      
Dismantling Blow   
Treachery      
Wrath of God      
Rout   
Brainstorm   
Faith's Fetters   
Mana Drain      
Careful Consideration   

// Creatures (13)

Draining Whelk   
Venser, Shaper Savant   
Trinket Mage   
Academy Rector   
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir   
Solemn Simulacrum   
Azorius Guildmage   
Azorius Herald   
Exalted Angel   
Vendilion Clique   
Vedalken AEthermage   
Serra Avenger   
Eternal Dragon   
Court Hussar   

// Planeswalker (1)

Jace Beleren   


You see the deck is focused to play most off the spells at instantspeed. You need your mana on the opponent's turn so you have to make your own game at End of opponents Turn. With this strategy the deck is very strong against control and combo. The problem is the aggro matchup. Of course there are a lot of massremoval, but most of them are expansive and slow.

This brought me to the idea of adding some cheap counter like Miscalculation, Daze or Spell Snare. They can disrupt the early game. But in a deck that is focused to reach the late game I think that this cards are only good if they show up on the starting hand. Drawn in later turns most of them are dead. What is your opinion?

Another card I would like to see in the deck is Aven Mindcensor. Good against Control and Combo, maybe a finisher. What should I cut?

And maybe there are some cards I havn't considered yet. So help me to find the best list.

Logged
Mythrandir
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 847



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: 08-12-2008, 04:24:22 PM »

Hey, on a overall analysis your decklit seems good. however i´d make some changes. here are my ideas:

Lands:
Seems good, i´d change:

+secluded steppe
+lonely sandbar
+ mishras factory
+ vesuva (great as a wasteland VS legendary lands, and having 2 maze of ith is never bad against aggro Tongue)

also i´d try thawing glaciers.

-urzas factory (mishra seems better against agro)

Spells:

this is the tricky part and depends a bit on your metagame. Overall it seems nice. here are some cards for you to think about:

tithe
intuition
deep analysis
pact of negation
mystical teachings
future sight (since you play rector)
repeal
muddle the mixture

things i might cut:

sword of fire ice (not that many creatures)
exile
disrupting shoal (i think its too random)
flash of insight (the fact it has flashback is nice, but its a bit expensive, to see the top 4 u have to pay 6 mana)
rout (too expensive)

Creatures:
Here is where i think you can really make some changes:

+ glen alendra archmage (really powerful)
+ meloku
+ kitchen finks (really nice vs aggro)
+/-? augury adept (this one is tricky, its really nice, but my testing showed it almost never dealt damage..)
+ stuff doll (nice blocker and it gives u the option of adding guilty conscience)
+drift of phantasms (nice blocker, transmute is nice)

would probably cut:
vendilion clique
vedalken aethermage (is wizard cycling that important?
serra avenger
azorius herald

PW:
jace is awesome, and i would definitely try adding the 2 White ones. PW are very good, they act as shield in attacks (almost everytime ppl attack the PW instead of players) and the fact that their abilities are mana free is very, very good.


Quote
idea of adding some cheap counter like Miscalculation, Daze or Spell Snare.
Another card I would like to see in the deck is Aven Mindcensor.
 

Miscalculation has cycling, so its never a dead card, as for daze, let me say that free counterspells are great Tongue and the fact that u can salvage a land from a wasteland/avalanche riders, etc, etc is really good. Most of the players taps out eventually, so you´ll eventually catch them with daze. Spell snare depends on your meta and what will you be expecting and if those 2 CMC spells really hurt you or if they are just random 2 CMC spells.

As for aven mindcensor, yeap, u should add that. it "kills" fetchlands/demonic/gifts. really nice and it has flash so it goes well with yor EOT strategy.

Hope it helps



Logged
Aubrey
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: 08-12-2008, 10:43:00 PM »

Hi,

and thanks for your answer.

I think your right with the factory, but I don't really understand why I should add the cyclelands. I can't use them and so they are just non-basics that leave tapped when B2B is in game. Vesuva sure can be a good land but I think it's only strong when you still have a good mana base on the table. I will test it but in my opinion it isn't very good.

In the early days Tithe was a part in this deck but it's only good if you can manage to have fewer lands than your opponent. Even then I hate to change a unknown card in my hand against two known cards that are lands.

Intuition and Teachings are missing because they don't make any card advantage. In this deck they work as a bad tutor. Sometimes I even think about cutting Gifts because there are no really good targets. But you can see Gifts as a Instant 4cc better drawspell.

Deep Analysis, Future Sight and Meloku all have the problem that I'm only able to play them in my turn. Further, they are expensive. I don't want to pay 5 or even 4 mana on my own turn, so that I can't protect the two permanents.

Pact of Negation is a card that I think is to slow. It's only good if you want to play expensive spells on your turn and then protect them. In this deck it would be a counter for 5 mana that will force you to tap out on your next turn.

I cutted the bouncespells quite a time ago they don't solve any problems they just buy one or two turns. Sometimes these turns may be necessary but I think a real solution or a tutor to find one ist better.

Muddle is a spell that was cutted just a few weeks ago. Normally you would say that it's a two mana counter against most decks and against the others you can transmute for a better spell. But I realized that I don't really have good cc2 spells. Most of them are counter and transmuting into an other counter is a bad idea I think. Maybe my thoughts are wrong here. Why do you think it should be played?

Sword came up while searching for an artifact kill option I'm not really glad with it but the mind slaver I've tested before was even worse. There are some creatures that are to small to kill at themself but with sword they can. Maybe someone can find another artifact kill option that fits in the deck. (Should be cheap or have flash)

Why would you cut exile? It's only weakness is WW and still they have manlands.

Flash of Insight is one of the best cards. Read it as cc3 Cycle cc2 search the top 20-40 cards of your lib for a card and this at instant speed. Although it's a chance to use the grave.

With rout you might be right but I think I shouldn't decreace the number of massremovals. Any other idea?


I think I should try the Finks and the Phantasm especially the Finks may be a better card than the Herald.

The other creatures are too good to cut. They are cheap and good finisher or really great tutor, when you look up the Wizards in the deck you see a lot of potential solutions or kill options.

I think I should change some of the counters to slim the mana curve.

Changes:

+ Finks
+ Miscalculation
+ Daze
+ Factory
+ Mindcensor
- Factory
- Herald
- Shoal

Something else to cut?
Logged
Mythrandir
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 847



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: 09-12-2008, 02:28:42 PM »

Quote
Hi,

and thanks for your answer.

No prob Wink

Quote
but I don't really understand why I should add the cyclelands. I can't use them and so they are just non-basics that leave tapped when B2B is in game.

Well, the cyclelands work as early mana or as late draw. imagine: "you have 10 lands in play" what do you prefer? drawing a cycle land or a basic land? Wink
In the early days Tithe was a part in this deck but it's only good if you can manage to have fewer lands than your opponent. Even then I hate to change a unknown card in my hand against two known cards that are lands.


Quote
Vesuva sure can be a good land but I think it's only strong when you still have a good mana base on the table. I will test it but in my opinion it isn't very good.

I´ve been using vesuva for quite a while, and its really good, it can act as color mana, as manland, as wasteland, as utility lands like maze of ith and it is potencially any land your opponent is playing. Although i play it and really like the results i´ve never seen another deck runing it.

Quote
Intuition and Teachings are missing because they don't make any card advantage. In this deck they work as a bad tutor. Sometimes I even think about cutting Gifts because there are no really good targets. But you can see Gifts as a Instant 4cc better drawspell.

well, i really dont aggree, but ok Wink gifts is one the best cards the format has, so good that some players think it should be banned. Intuition is similar to gifts. It thins your deck, it can search you an answer EOT. you need to stop the next alpha attack? ok, intuition -> WOG, moat, halloed burial, need to kill a single problematic creature? ok, intuition EOT -> STP, oblivion ring, treachery. Wink Its really good. These 2 even become better if you play things like deep anaylis and the flash of insight.

As for mystical teachings, even though you dont play black (unless facing an opponent with black mana source and you play vesuva Wink hehe) it can search for killing options (STP), counters, Draw, disenchant and even vendilion clique, teferi and other flash creatures! if teferi is on the board it can fetch any creature you have.


Quote
Deep Analysis, Future Sight and Meloku all have the problem that I'm only able to play them in my turn. Further, they are expensive. I don't want to pay 5 or even 4 mana on my own turn, so that I can't protect the two permanents.


well, with deep and future sight i understand. its all about EOT Smiley as for meloku i think u need to have finishing options like everyc control (MUC, Uw control.. in the old days it was morphling..). Because i look at your deck and only see eternal dragon and exalted as your finishers (perhaps draining whelk). meloku isnt different from exalted (even if played with morph) you still need to spend 4 mana to play it (2/2). Meloku is a nice finisher as is oona, queen of the fae.

Quote
Pact of Negation is a card that I think is to slow. It's only good if you want to play expensive spells on your turn and then protect them. In this deck it would be a counter for 5 mana that will force you to tap out on your next turn.

I basically like pact because it can be searched with tolaria west, and although i´ve alredy lost to the pact (damn wastelands Tongue) i still play it. Your deck is different from mine (5CC) so you´re right you probably have better (free) counters.

Quote
I cutted the bouncespells quite a time ago they don't solve any problems they just buy one or two turns. Sometimes these turns may be necessary but I think a real solution or a tutor to find one ist better

Ok, as for tutor you have the ones i said and this one -> personal tutor. i´ve tested it and didnt like it because its: top of your library and sorcery. these 2 together are horrible =/

Quote
Muddle is a spell that was cutted just a few weeks ago. Normally you would say that it's a two mana counter against most decks and against the others you can transmute for a better spell. But I realized that I don't really have good cc2 spells. Most of them are counter and transmuting into an other counter is a bad idea I think. Maybe my thoughts are wrong here. Why do you think it should be played?

Looking better at your CMC, muddle isnt that good.

Quote
Sword came up while searching for an artifact kill option I'm not really glad with it but the mind slaver I've tested before was even worse. There are some creatures that are to small to kill at themself but with sword they can. Maybe someone can find another artifact kill option that fits in the deck. (Should be cheap or have flash)

I dont like the sword in your deck, because i think u dont play enough creatures (aggro) so it can be a dead card. As for an artifact kill option you have what i said stuffy doll, specially if you then play guilty conscience, even if u dont play it it still is a nice blocker that pings your opponent every turn. Another one, my friend used to play on his UW control was goblin charbelcher, may not be the best but it was quite effective. Killer artifacts with flash, i dont recall any.

Quote
Why would you cut exile? It's only weakness is WW  and still they have manlands.[/

i dont understand this phrase.. exile is 2W not WW. and still they have manlands? sorry but i dont see what you mean with this part. i dont like exile because u already have spot and mass removal. And this one is a bit more expensive, its non-white. i think i´d prefer to add a ajani goldmane over this. but its just my opinion Smiley

Quote
Flash of Insight is one of the best cards. Read it as cc3 Cycle cc2 search the top 20-40 cards of your lib for a card and this at instant speed. Although it's a chance to use the grave.

I see that in late game the flashback is really good, but you said aggro was the main problem, so this wont probably be the 20-40 cards of your library (and btw, having 40 blue cards in the library seems like a very looonngg match. Even worse you play relic of progenitus and you probably have used its 2nd ability. Its just seems a bit suboptimal (against aggro). i´d prefer to add another PW or keep exile or play both finks + herald.

Quote
With rout you might be right but I think I shouldn't decreace the number of massremovals. Any other idea?

i think you already play enough mass/spot removal. dont forget that attack is the best defense Tongue if you keep some presure its more difficult for your opponent to play/win.


Quote
Changes:

+ Finks
+ Miscalculation
+ Daze
+ Factory
+ Mindcensor
- Factory
- Herald
- Shoal

Something else to cut?

IMO?!, just the ones i said previously Tongue

Also i´d cut pulse of the fields. i think its too slow against aggro, IMO. especially having WW in its cost.

too bad i didnt see a:

+ glen elendra archmage

in there its really good, you should test it.
Logged
Aubrey
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: 09-12-2008, 04:30:24 PM »

The WW was meant to be white weenie. I think exile is one of the best pointremoval in the format.

Glen Elendra Archmage looks like me for a cc5 creature that makes a matchup better that I already win.

I see I should cut the Sword you're right that I have not enough creatures to take the advantage of this card.

The PW are too weak in my opinion Ajani's lifegain isn't really that strong and the second ability only works with Decree. I have thought about Elpeth quiet a long time but I think her abilities are too slow. As a killoption I think I have better cards and the second one is useless since I don't have enough creatures. Only Jace is a card that beats control by itself. The cardadvantage is perfect and control has problems finding a solution for a PW.

I will test cutting rout but I don't think I get happy with it.

So Changes:

- Sword of Fire and Ice
- rout
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

 

Wizards of the Coast® and Magic: the Gathering® are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. (WotC).
Magic: the Gathering®, the five mana-symbols, the tap-symbol and most cards and artworks are © WotC.

© 2004-2007 by connexo websolutions   |   Imprint