Questionnaire

[Vazdru]

This questionnaire will be distributed to the participants of the 6th HL GP in Aachen (30.11.08).

Online players are invited to take part in this survey (just quote and fill in). The analysis will be reported here soon.


German Version:

@ HIGHLANDER COMMUNITY

Name:___________________________________________________________________


Fragebogen zur Banned-List (derzeit gültige Version vom 15.10.2008, s.u.)

•   Ancestral Recall
•   Balance
•   Black Lotus
•   Cephalid Illusionist
•   Chain of Plasma
•   Chaos Orb
•   Dread Return
•   Dust Bowl
•   Falling Star
•   Fastbond
•   Flash
•   Imperial Seal
•   Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
•    neu!
•   Lion's Eye Diamond
•   Mana Crypt
•   Mana Vault
•   Memory Jar
•    neu!
•   Mind Twist
•   Mox Emerald   
•   Mox Jet
•   Mox Pearl
•   Mox Ruby
•   Mox Sapphire
•   Mystical Tutor
•   Painter's Servant
•   Power Artifact
•   Protean Hulk
•   Skullclamp
•   Sol Ring
•   Strip Mine
•   Tolarian Academy
•   Time Vault neu!
•   Time Walk
•   Timetwister
•   Tinker
•   Trinisphere
•   Umezawa's Jitte
•   Vampiric Tutor
•   Wheel of Fortune
•   Worldgorger Dragon
•   Yawgmoth's Will   Alle Ante-Karten:
•   Amulet of Quoz
•   Bronze Tablet
•   Contract from Below
•   Darkpact
•   Demonic Attorney
•   Jeweled Bird
•   Rebirth
•   Tempest Efreet
•   Timmerian Fiends
Weiterhin sind alle Karten aus den Editionen "Unglued" und "Unhinged" mit Ausnahme der Basic Lands banned.
Folgende silberrandige Karten sind ebenfalls banned:
•   Fruitcake Elemental
•   Gifts Given


Wie bewertest Du die Banned-Liste auf einer Skala von 1 bis 10 (1=grottig, 10=super)?

__________

Wie bewertest Du die Mulligan-Regel auf einer Skala von 1 bis 10?

__________

Wie oft spielst Du Highlander nach den mp.org-Regeln durchschnittlich

   Mehrmals wöchentlich

   Einmal die Woche

   Einmal im Monat
   
   Nur bei großen Turnieren

Wie häufig warst Du schon bei einem HL-GP?

___________

Welche Karten fehlen Deiner Meinung nach auf der aktuellen Banned-Liste? (max. die wichtigsten 5, wenn möglich mit kurzer Begründung)

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

Welche Karten würdest Du von der Banned-Liste streichen? (max. die wichtigsten 5, wenn möglich mit kurzer Begründung)

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

Wärst Du beim 7. HL GP wieder dabei? Wenn ja, wie viel Kilometer würdest Du max. dafür fahren? (einfache Strecke)

_____________


Bitte um Rückgabe an Gerry Stahl

Vielen Dank! Eine Auswertung wird demnächst veröffentlicht.

Ps. Wenn Du Dich auch für Online-HL über Magic Workstation interessierst, bist Du herzlich eingeladen uns auf dieser Seite zu besuchen:

http://www.magicplayer.org/forum



Translation:

@ HIGHLANDER COMMUNITY

Name:___________________________________________________________________


Questionnaire for MTG Banned List (valid due 15.10.2008, see below)

•   Ancestral Recall
•   Balance
•   Black Lotus
•   Cephalid Illusionist
•   Chain of Plasma
•   Chaos Orb
•   Dread Return
•   Dust Bowl
•   Falling Star
•   Fastbond
•   Flash
•   Imperial Seal
•   Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
•    neu!
•   Lion's Eye Diamond
•   Mana Crypt
•   Mana Vault
•   Memory Jar
•    neu!
•   Mind Twist
•   Mox Emerald   â€¢   Mox Jet
•   Mox Pearl
•   Mox Ruby
•   Mox Sapphire
•   Mystical Tutor
•   Painter's Servant
•   Power Artifact
•   Protean Hulk
•   Skullclamp
•   Sol Ring
•   Strip Mine
•   Tolarian Academy
•   Time Vault neu!
•   Time Walk
•   Timetwister
•   Tinker
•   Trinisphere
•   Umezawa's Jitte
•   Vampiric Tutor
•   Wheel of Fortune
•   Worldgorger Dragon
•   Yawgmoth's Will   Alle Ante-Karten:
•   Amulet of Quoz
•   Bronze Tablet
•   Contract from Below
•   Darkpact
•   Demonic Attorney
•   Jeweled Bird
•   Rebirth
•   Tempest Efreet
•   Timmerian Fiends
•   Fruitcake Elemental
•   Gifts Given


How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

__________

How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

__________

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average

   several times weekly

   once per week

   one per month
   
   only (big) tournaments (like GP)

How often have you played on a HL-GP?

___________

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________


Thanks a lot for participance!

Helpful suggestions are welcome!

_____________________________________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________________________________

[Mythrandir]

Translation:

@ HIGHLANDER COMMUNITY

Name:______João Gonçalo Matos (mythrandir)_____________________________________________________________


Questionnaire for MTG Banned List (valid due 15.10.2008, see below)

•   Ancestral Recall
•   Balance
•   Black Lotus
•   Cephalid Illusionist
•   Chain of Plasma
•   Chaos Orb
•   Dread Return
•   Dust Bowl
•   Falling Star
•   Fastbond
•   Flash
•   Imperial Seal
•   Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
•    neu!
•   Lion's Eye Diamond
•   Mana Crypt
•   Mana Vault
•   Memory Jar
•    neu!
•   Mind Twist
•   Mox Emerald   â€¢   Mox Jet
•   Mox Pearl
•   Mox Ruby
•   Mox Sapphire
•   Mystical Tutor
•   Painter's Servant
•   Power Artifact
•   Protean Hulk
•   Skullclamp
•   Sol Ring
•   Strip Mine
•   Tolarian Academy
•   Time Vault neu!
•   Time Walk
•   Timetwister
•   Tinker
•   Trinisphere
•   Umezawa's Jitte
•   Vampiric Tutor
•   Wheel of Fortune
•   Worldgorger Dragon
•   Yawgmoth's Will   Alle Ante-Karten:
•   Amulet of Quoz
•   Bronze Tablet
•   Contract from Below
•   Darkpact
•   Demonic Attorney
•   Jeweled Bird
•   Rebirth
•   Tempest Efreet
•   Timmerian Fiends
•   Fruitcake Elemental
•   Gifts Given


How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

____9______

How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

_____5_____

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average

   several times weekly (THIS ONE)

   once per week

   one per month
   
   only (big) tournaments (like GP)

How often have you played on a HL-GP?

_Never (i´m in portugal, so its complicated)__________

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

I havent see any abused card so far, that isnt in the list. However i do aggree
that some cards need to be watched (gifts/LFTL)

____Also due to being so hard to get, Portal III cards should be looked at_______________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

_I´ve never play with vampiric tutor on a competitive highlander game, but since its such
a iconic card that i wish i could run, but once again, never played it (or against it).
Everything else seems ok

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________


Thanks a lot for participance!

Helpful suggestions are welcome!

This is just to justify the score of the mulligan: even though the new mull helps avoiding
mana screw/flood (specially in MWS) i do think that losing the randomness of the initial
hand is bad, specially when one of the player knows the opponent deck and the other does not.
i feel that our initial hand should be based on pure probabilities (and also on good deckbuilding)
and the fact that we get to choose whether to keep or not keep a specific card(s) seem like strategy
and gameplay to me.
Hope i got my message across, because it´s not easy to explain..

[pyyhttu]

I might adopt this survey and run it in our upcoming HL-tournament this coming Saturday, but before I do that I'd like to know...:

Who conducts this survey, i.e. is this questionaire some individual's brainchild (yours?) or is "the committee" involved in this somehow? Why is this survey pulled together in the first place (what for, what purpose does this serve)?

I'm little cynical over this as don't believe this has much the desired impact on the banning policy, nor the ban list (aside heated discussion), especially if this is *not* conducted by the "benevolent dictators" (committee)...

[Vazdru]

I might adopt this survey and run it in our upcoming HL-tournament this coming Saturday, but before I do that I'd like to know...:

Would be nice.

Who conducts this survey,

Me

i.e. is this questionaire some individual's brainchild (yours?) or is "the committee" involved in this somehow?

Both is right. I developed that questionnaire on my own (just told "the community" that i will do it in line with the GP) but meanwhile I'm part of that HL committee - so "the committee" is involved somehow  As i meet Sturmgott weekly the exchange of ideas is bigger than before.

Why is this survey pulled together in the first place (what for, what purpose does this serve)?

I want to know:
- if the "community" is satisfied with the "state-of-the-art" of highlander banning policy or not
- if the mulligan is accepted or not
- who has the biggest problems with the rules (guys playing weekly like me or guys watching "from outside" what happened in the HL community)
- which are the most hated cards in highlander
- which cards do the community wants back

We have already over 115 reservations for the GP - there is still a big interest in Highlander

I'm little cynical over this as don't believe this has much the desired impact on the banning policy, nor the ban list (aside heated discussion), especially if this is *not* conducted by the "benevolent dictators" (committee)...

See above. If the community get to the point that everything is ok there won't any big impacts on the Banned-List of course. Anyhow i think the committee won't ignore the results. See the unbanning of Mind over Matters - some day your voice will be heard. 

[pyyhttu]

I didn't get a chance to print out the form, but here's my input:

@ HIGHLANDER COMMUNITY

Name:

Tuomas Pyyhtiä

How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great perfect)?

8.

How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

10.

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) (highlandermagic.info-rules) in average

Several times weekly or once per week. Varies between those.

How often have you played on a HL-GP?

Never. Can we have our own in Finland or is this patented?

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why?

I'll just name the most problematic: Gifts Ungiven. Not that usually a resolved Gifts just wins the game from the point on but players even tend to splash blue, and just for Gifts if it supports their deck. The card offers an unfair spot tutor for threats _and/or_ card advantage in the same shell. This format has long leaned on key card banning, but it has been taken so extreme that broken tutors have been forgotten, and more often they start to be the real source of the problems. Life from the Loam that sits on the current watch list is a perfect example of a card that might get axed just because the real bully, Gifts Ungiven is allowed to rampage.
Also, there is the time factor: seeking answers with gifts by the unexperienced players takes a lot of time. This isn't anywhere near the same problem as it was in the sanctioned events with Sensei's Divining Top or Shahrazad but still with 100 card decks a factor.

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Again I'll name just one: Flash.
May sound rogue and a bad joke but hear this: The original banning clause was: "Flash gets banned to get around similar combodecks which could otherwise surprisingly emerge in between two banning seasons if other abusable creatures hit the format in the future."

And that was that. Bold emphasizing was mine. No mention of testing, deck data or other comments were offered *apart* from that a pure combo Flash/Hulk finals cleared the prize table in a GP. It is like people automatically deducted that because other formats banned Flash, it also must go in Highlander. The key issue here is that a predictive ban is bad; it doesn't leave the player base time to work and test things out by themself. It leaves a taste that they can't affect the format and that the format is too much controlled from above.

The correct procedure here would have been _first_ to test whether Protean Hulk, Flash or both were the trouble makers. It's clear that with Footsteps of Goryo, Necromancy and similar reanimate effects running around in the original builds the problem was at least the key target for those: Protean Hulk.

But Flash was the problem? We never know. Would it have been broken with Academy Rector consequently fetching Yawgmoth's Bargain and combo off with card advantage from there?

A preventive ban just because something new *might* come around and break a card is not valid. If/when that happens, *then* ban Flash, but at least let the players to work it out, or around.

Library of Alexandria was recently unbanned test wise: The council/players never actually had the time to test it thoroughly. But it was still unbanned now as you wanted to see how much impact it will have on the format in the coming HL GP 6.

Maybe a similar, corrective procedure could be applied to Flash as well?

Helpful suggestions are welcome!

Small nitpicks really:

1. Rate the scale from 1 to 10 and label ten as "perfect" (nothing needs to be changed) and one as "poor".
2. Make the questionaire a permanent procedure in every HL you'll have so the data actually can been reviewed on a time scale. With the same core questions ofcourse.
3. Host printable a version (PDF/ODF/DOC...) somewhere so people can actually spread this in tournaments with lots of HL-players in them (I could have downloaded this last Saturday and printed with the shop's printer).

[Payron]

I am still sry I missed to fill this out at the GP ... I was always happy when I won a match and after some matches I were just heading out to get some food

@ HIGHLANDER COMMUNITY

Name:__Jan Münch________________________________________________________


Questionnaire for MTG Banned List (valid due 15.10.2008, see below)

•   Ancestral Recall
•   Balance
•   Black Lotus
•   Cephalid Illusionist
•   Chain of Plasma
•   Chaos Orb
•   Dread Return
•   Dust Bowl
•   Falling Star
•   Fastbond
•   Flash
•   Imperial Seal
•   Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
•    neu!
•   Lion's Eye Diamond
•   Mana Crypt
•   Mana Vault
•   Memory Jar
•    neu!
•   Mind Twist
•   Mox Emerald   â€¢   Mox Jet
•   Mox Pearl
•   Mox Ruby
•   Mox Sapphire
•   Mystical Tutor
•   Painter's Servant
•   Power Artifact
•   Protean Hulk
•   Skullclamp
•   Sol Ring
•   Strip Mine
•   Tolarian Academy
•   Time Vault neu!
•   Time Walk
•   Timetwister
•   Tinker
•   Trinisphere
•   Umezawa's Jitte
•   Vampiric Tutor
•   Wheel of Fortune
•   Worldgorger Dragon
•   Yawgmoth's Will   Alle Ante-Karten:
•   Amulet of Quoz
•   Bronze Tablet
•   Contract from Below
•   Darkpact
•   Demonic Attorney
•   Jeweled Bird
•   Rebirth
•   Tempest Efreet
•   Timmerian Fiends
•   Fruitcake Elemental
•   Gifts Given


How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

____9______

How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

____10_____

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average

   several times weekly

   once per week

   one per month
   
   only (big) tournaments (like GP)

How often have you played on a HL-GP?

_____2 (and I did love both )______

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

__I am not sure about survival but we could see this time that there was no survival on the top , also I would rly rly watch out for the Libery that got unbanned because she can rly be sick ... but its nothing rly what I would prefere to be a MUST-ban _________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

I personaly think Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is just a fun card and it could rather be buried alive be banned, but I can also understand the banning becuase buried alive is maybe better playble then he is.
I can t rly see the dangerouse of flash without Hulk sure it could get abused again but the card is pretty nice and funny and also playble like buried alive. ___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________


Thanks a lot for participance!

Helpful suggestions are welcome!

_____________________________________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________________________________

[Nastaboi]

Name:

Juha Ihonen

How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

6. It takes character of the format in account rather well, but restriction criteria is just plain wrong.

How do you rate the highlander mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

7. It usually works but can make games really lopsided when someone is forced to mulligan more than once due to mana problems. I'd suggest one free mulligan instead.

How often do you play Highlander (mp.org-rules) in average

once per week

How often have you played on a HL-GP?

Never, I live in wrong country.

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

1. Gifts Ungiven

Gifts is a really stupid card that just wins game in the spot. The only time I have lost a game after resolving Gifts was when my opponent has removed every relevant answer from my deck. Gifts set up all kinds of combos and engines. Without it, Loam would not be any problem - actually it is not. The problem card is Gifts. Even if opponent had Leyline of the Void or something similar, a card that finds two best cards from your deck to your hand is just too broken, unfair - and unfun.

2. Demonic Tutor

Ever lost a game against Demonic Tutored Price of Progress? Sorry, ever lost a game just because your opponent drew Demonic Tutor? Simply put, Demonic Tutor is the best card in your deck, in any situations. Control decks in Vintage usually splash black just for two cards: Yawgmoth's Will and Demonic. Two mana, one of which any colour, to get anything instantly - I can't believe I actually have to write why this card is too good. "We want one good universal tutor in the format" nonsense is not an argument at all. I don't want cards that straight out win the game with two mana in the format.

3. Survival of the Fittest

Survival can set up combos (most notably Reveillark) making it one-card combo. It is cheap tutor and card advantage engine in itself. And all that with just two mana. It is frustrating to play against and it limits deckbuilding when every survival deck is stuffed with cards to get with it.

4. Hermit Druid

To weaken Sutured Ghoul combo, you have banned Cephalid Illusionist (which is okay) and Dread Return, latter of which makes absolutely no sense. Instead of crazy combo enabler (Hermit Druid), you have bannet an innocent flashback spell. Spells that can played free in your graveyard are not problem - two mana cards that put your whole deck into the graveyard to be played are.

5. Swans of Bryn Algoll

Same as above: Swans is the combo enabler, Chain is an innocent burn spell. The combo itself might not be strong enough to warrant ban, but let it rather be that way if has to.

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

1. Flash

With Protean Hulk Banned, this card does absolutely nothing.

2. Chain of Plasma

See Swans above.

3. Dread Return

See Hermit Druid above.

4. Dust Bowl

This card is just bad, and even worse when compared to recurring Wasteland.

5. Kiki-Jiki, the Mirror Breaker

Kiki-Jiki is a fair card. Combos with it are rather difficult to set up - at least if my proposed restrictions have been done - and easy to disrupt.

Helpful suggestions are welcome!

You can't come along by banning every possible two-card combo, you have to eventually start banning the best tutors. Gifts, Demonic and Survival are the most dangerous ones. Stop banning decks and start banning cards. Just ban most broken cards and leave the rest, and let the metagame form free and balance itself.

[Vazdru]

I have 62 answered questionnaires meanwhile. Thanks for your support.

It will take some time for the evaluation. Just a few detections at first sight:

a) the HL community obviously likes the special HL mulligan

b) noone mentioned Mind over Matters to be banned (Latest Unbanning proved itself right)

c) Library of Alexandria is one of the most hated cards actually although no? LoA appeared in the Top 4 (Latest Unbanning seems to be conflicting)

d) Survival is still another disliked card although there haven't been many copies in the Top 8

e) The community wants Chains of Plasma (+ Ban Swans) and Kiki-Jiki back. Lots of guys mentioned Dust Bowl to be unbanned.

[Vazdru]

BAN   ----   UNBAN

Survival of the Fittest	27	43,55%	Kiki-Jiki Mirror-Breaker	15	24,19%
Library of Alexandria	15	24,19%	Dust Bowl	13	20,97%
Life from the Loam	14	22,58%	Chain of Plasma	12	19,35%
Gifts Ungiven	8	12,90%	Umezawa's Jitte	9	14,52%
Oath of Druids	7	11,29%	Protean Hulk	7	11,29%
Demonic Tutor	5	8,06%	Dread Return	7	11,29%
Intuition	3	4,84%	Mystical Tutor	6	9,68%
Pulse of the Fields	3	4,84%	Imperial Seal	5	8,06%
Mana Drain	3	4,84%	Flash	5	8,06%
Mind Shatter	3	4,84%	Balance	4	6,45%
Mishra's Workshop	3	4,84%	Trinisphere	3	4,84%
Isochron Scepter	3	4,84%	Skullclamp	2	3,23%
Crucible of Worlds	2	3,23%	Mana Vault	2	3,23%
Aether Vial	2	3,23%	Power Artifact	2	3,23%
Back to Basics	2	3,23%	Wheel of Fortune	1	1,61%
Volrath's Stronghold	1	1,61%	Lion's Eye Diamond	1	1,61%
Sensei's Divining Top	1	1,61%	Vampiric Tutor	1	1,61%
Academy Ruins	1	1,61%	Strip Mine	1	1,61%
Vedalken Shackles	1	1,61%	Yawgmoth's Will	1	1,61%
Goblin Recruiter	1	1,61%	Mind Twist	1	1,61%
Ravages of War	1	1,61%	Tolarian Academy	1	1,61%
Force of Will	1	1,61%	Sol Ring	1	1,61%
Recurring Nightmare	1	1,61%	Tinker	1	1,61%
Price of Progress	1	1,61%

[Vazdru]

There has been a teeny discussion on the German board which can be found here:  http://www.magicplayer.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1606 about the facts of the evaluation but without any results yet. The other Committee-Members haven't given their opinions so far. Maybe everyone is on holiday actually    or they do not see any need for action.

I try to keep you informed if there is any concrete "official" feedback or progress.