5c control

[Lotus]

I think that Abeyence is far better then Chant. On the one hand it doesn't need double W and on the other hand, if you dont need it, you can just cycle it for 1W.

I still dont understand why incinerate and suddenshock should be better then Lightning Bolt. Tey cost one more to play and their advantage is not that big. I also think that even magma jet is better then sudden shock, because the scry ability is very good.

[Sturmgott]

I play Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix and Sudden Shock in my 5c Oath.

Lightning Bolt is just plain invaluable, because it it so cheap and does so much damage for just one mana. Lightning Helix is the perfect spell to imprint on a Scepter vs. aggro decks, as it combines two of the most important abilities in that matchup: Removal AND Lifegain. On a Scepter, it also provides the win condition.

Sudden Shock' split second ability just make it so much better than e.g. Incinerate. Sure, it can't kill an elephant token, but: It does kill Psychatog, Wild Mongrel, Mother of Runes (or another creature on the board with her), and like Incinerate, also almost all creatures able to regenerate otherwise. It can also kill a Mishra's Factory that wants to block before it does so.

Sure, the scrying makes Magma Jet also quite desirable, but imho it is simply the next best card to play AFTER these three.

And for that Chant/Abeyance-Discussion: I would't play either of the two any longer atm. They both are best if you are the combo guy (which you aren't) or if you play vs. that combo guy (which after the last banning season you probably won't). The better alternatives atm imho are Shadow of Doubt, or Gilded Light, both being able to "counter" Intuition/Gifts. Besides, Shadow of Doubt can also "counter" fetching lands, rebels, and Survival-activation. Gilded Light provides the advantage of countering burn and discard spells and the like.

[Lotus]

Is it possible that you post your 5C-Oath? (I am just interested how you've build it) ..or is it the same one that Frank has already posted?

[Sturmgott]

I have attached my current version to this post. And besides, it may be a bit confusing, but FrankT and Sturmgott are the same person - me

[Mythrandir]

I think that Abeyence is far better then Chant. On the one hand it doesn't need double W and on the other hand, if you dont need it, you can just cycle it for 1W.

I still dont understand why incinerate and suddenshock should be better then Lightning Bolt. Tey cost one more to play and their advantage is not that big. I also think that even magma jet is better then sudden shock, because the scry ability is very good.

i didnt say that chant was better than abeyance.. i said you should probably play the 2 to increase  the odds of drawing it.

as for the "fire" discussion. i´m still convinced that lightning bolt isnt better than incinerate, sudden, and (perhaps?) magma jet. you´re playin a control deck, if you dont have the extra colorless mana to pay for these spells you´re probably having a bad game.. =/
they are all instant, so no diference there, i dont think that 1R instead of R is that important in a control deck, and lightning hasnt any ability. the only way i can see the bolt being better is having it on your opening hand and killing a creature on its first attack..

but that's just my 2cents  

[Lotus]

I have attached my current version to this post. And besides, it may be a bit confusing, but FrankT and Sturmgott are the same person - me

I have looked through it and iam a bit confused about the Wake and the Exploration. What are these two cards important for?
And is Memory Lapse not better then Hinder?
Is Cremate not better then Coffin Purge? Or is that because you can search for the purge with Gifts and Intuition?

And one last thing which I already asked before (but nobody answered  ): Isn't Repeal worth playing?

[Sturmgott]

Wake + Decree / Stroke / Disintegrate is very strong, that's why it's included. Exploration is very important for the main plan of the deck, which is rather LftL than Oath.

Memory Lapse is just not good in a pure control deck, and 5c Oath is such a pure control deck. Memory Laps shows its power primarily in aggro-control decks, often being a timewalk in those decks and delaying e.g. a Wrath of God or a Moat for one turn, so the aggrocontrol player has an additional turn in which he can attack with his critters and possibly take evasive action for the upcoming spell which is now known.

As for your question "Cremate vs. Coffing Purge": Cremate surely has the huge advantage of being a cantrip, and as such, being a great Imprint for the Scepter. The advantage of Coffin Purge in this deck is, that the deck plan is either to get Oath running (in which case a Coffin Purge being "milled" into the graveyard in the process is helpful, a Cremate is not), or to get the LftL-engine online. In that case a Coffin Purge dredged into the graveyard... you get the point. In addition to that, it is indeed sometimes helpful to be able to tutor for yard removal with Gifts/Intuition in a simple way. These advantages for me outweighed the Cantrip/Scepter argument.

[Mythrandir]

a few things about the 5c oath..

isnt demonfire better than desintegrate?
whye dont u include krosan reclmation, petriefied field, sterling grove?

and is just 1 fattie enough?

well, these are the questions of player who doesnt know the metagame

[Lotus]

Exploration is very important for the main plan of the deck, which is rather LftL than Oath.

Ah okay this is also why you play the merchant scroll it also supports the LftL plan. 

Some more questions  :

Is it realy useful to play 4 Basic Lands in a 5 color Deck? I would prefer to play 2 basics (Plains and Island). Or is this so important against the Wasteland-lock? But I think you also have the mox diamond, the Darksteel Ingot and the Gilded Lotus.

You told that Shadow of Doubt is good, but you don't even play it. Wouldn't it be worth playing? It is very strong in the Control Mirror!

Is the Pulse realy better then a simple massremoval like Damnation?

[Mythrandir]

regarding 5c control..

what do you think is best? Court hussar ou Wall of blossoms?

[MarkusMagic]

I like Wall of Blosoms more than Court Husar because it has 4 toughness ans is just 2 mana. I think in the three mana slot are better cards. Furthermore there are few burnspells to handle Wall. So ist most often the 2:1 Trade vs RG Beatz for example.

But what do you think about Tarmogyf. It's such a good creature so I think it belongs in here. Or?

Thanks
Markus

[Lotus]

I think so too, thamogoyf is a mighty creature even in control decks: It will be big enough to block a lot of creature, as well as it puts a fast clock on the opponent if he can't handel it.

Is the Crucible not good enough to be played? ...I mean you play a lot of fetchies and a Wasteland (with crop rotation to search for it)

[Mythrandir]

I think so too, thamogoyf is a mighty creature even in control decks: It will be big enough to block a lot of creature, as well as it puts a fast clock on the opponent if he can't handel it.

Is the Crucible not good enough to be played? ...I mean you play a lot of fetchies and a Wasteland (with crop rotation to search for it)

goyf is a possibility, but i´m more inclined to test skyshroud warbeast. it will probably be as big as a goyf, especially against multicolored decks.

as for crucible, i´ve tested and its okay, but i think the combo crucible + wasteland isnt that good in general.. so LTFL is a better option. crucible was easily destroyed.. =/

yeap, i think the wall is better, the court hussar is just slower and gets killed more often.

[MarkusMagic]

I think Goyf is much better than War Beast. There are some Decks like WW/WWu/RDW/UG that don't play many nonbasics. So War Beast will be a dead cards agaist these decks. And even in Control Mirrors Creatures are not that important. So I don't see a good reason to play it.

Thanks
Markus

[Mythrandir]

this is currentlu my deck. i´ve already looked at some decks at magicplayer.org, and took some ideas..

Creatures
  1 Loxodon Hierarch
  1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
  1 Eternal Witness
  1 Etched Oracle
  1 Solemn Simulacrum
  1 Exalted Angel
  1 Flametongue Kavu
  1 Eternal Dragon
  1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
  1 Venser, Shaper Savant
  1 Trygon Predator
  1 Academy Rector
  1 Mystic Snake

Spells
  1 Sensei's Divining Top
  1 Regrowth
  1 Dissipate
  1 Mortify
  1 Chainer's Edict
  1 Swords to Plowshares
  1 Fire/Ice
  1 Dromar's Charm
  1 Lightning Helix
  1 Brainstorm
  1 Vindicate
  1 Demonic Tutor
  1 All Suns' Dawn
  1 Dismiss
  1 Impulse
  1 Decree of Justice
  1 Lim-Dul's Vault
  1 Gifts Ungiven
  1 Concentrate
  1 Allied Strategies
  1 Collective Restraint
  1 Pernicious Deed
  1 Darksteel Ingot
  1 Tithe
  1 Evasive Action
  1 Starstorm
  1 Voidslime
  1 Gilded Lotus
  1 Fact or Fiction
  1 Debtors' Knell
  1 Mystical Teachings
  1 Future Sight
  1 Undermine
  1 Absorb
  1 Worldly Counsel
  1 Enlightened Tutor
  1 Eladamri's Call
  1 Damnation
  1 Moat
  1 Sylvan Scrying
  1 Mana Drain
  1 Krosan Grip
  1 Pact of Negation
  1 Personal Tutor
  1 Phyrexian Furnace
  1 Holistic Wisdom
  1 Wrath of God
  1 Counterspell

Lands
  1 Bayou
  1 Reflecting Pool
  1 Forest
  1 Mountain
  1 Savannah
  1 Tundra
  1 Scrubland
  1 Coastal Tower
  1 Nantuko Monastery
  1 Kor Haven
  1 Island
  1 Tropical Island
  1 Volrath's Stronghold
  1 Wasteland
  1 Swamp
  1 Plains
  1 Taiga
  1 Underground Sea
  1 Volcanic Island
  1 Hallowed Fountain
  1 Temple Garden
  1 Watery Grave
  1 Maze of Ith
  1 Krosan Verge
  1 Rishadan Port
  1 Badlands
  1 Plateau
  1 Karakas
  1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
  1 Flooded Strand
  1 Wooded Foothills
  1 Mountain Valley
  1 Rocky Tar Pit
  1 Bloodstained Mire
  1 Grasslands
  1 Bad River
  1 Polluted Delta
  1 Flood Plain
  1 Windswept Heath



thks

-1 mountain
-1 coastal tower
-1 holistic widosm
-1 debtor knell
-1 allied strategies
-1 concentrate       
-1 all suns dawn     
-1 solemn simulacrum 
-1 mortify
-1 undermine
+1 intuition
+1 sudden shock
+1 hide//seek
+1 wall of blossom
+1 mishra factory
+1 lonely sandbar
+1 shred memory
+1 treachery
+1 LFTL
+1 hinder

well, after some matches, and some opinions, i´ve changed these cards.