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13865 Posts in 1003 Topics- by 439 Members - Latest Member: Lavierky
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Author Topic: UWR Midrange/Twin    (Read 2744 times)
SirGalahad
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« on: 18-11-2014, 02:55:12 PM »

As i intensified my preparations for the HL-Cup in Hanau, i came across some questions regarding decklists of this archetypes, especially this list: http://mtgpulse.com/event/18160#256484
I don't know if the pilot of this list is active here in the forums, but i'm sure some of the Berlin guys know something about the list. Wink

1. Are the double-white cards (Brimaz, Finks, Council's Judgement) really worth littering your manabase with all these mediocre multicolour lands?
2. As you have no chance to tutor up a creature for the combo, isn't Imperial Recruiter an option? You already have some other nice targets for him in the deck.
3. Already playing Enlightened Tutor, don't you want at least one "removal enchantment" like O-Ring?
4. Is Chandra Pyromaster really that good to play her over the various other options at planeswalkers?
5. Are you sure, you don't need Force of Will and/or Mental Misstep in a deck going for tempo-plays like this?
6. Is saw you had Anger of the Gods in the Decks in past tournaments. What's the reason to play Slagstorm over it? Or better, why isn't Anger's effect not good enough compared to the option of burning your opponent?
7. No Karakas, no Wasteland seems like a big flaw to me. I can understand your demand for good mana, but as i wrote earlier, i don't know is it's worth it.

Thanks in advance for any answers.
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Tabris
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« Reply #1 on: 18-11-2014, 04:28:09 PM »

I am sure you will get your answers soon from Luca but until then I´ll  try to adress them since I ve spoken many times
with him about those points and besides that I ve tried a similar list many times (I called it UWR-Smoothrange since the deck he gave me the shell for feels always like a well designed machine which never stumbles)

1. Yes and NO hes switching the double white spells all the time. I think there is no "right" answer but I always felt like including the power granted by the color white is an argument for the "W" in UWR. That said being less prone to nonbasic hate and even have the option to run bloodmoon is a good argument against it.

2. It is an option and certainly not bad to play him at the same time this deck is all about pressure and permission.

3. My answer would be yes since I am a toolbox-lover Tongue

4. No shes not but Luca will argue that she is the best thing happened to magic since Richard Garfield.

5. I would play Force and there are many arguments for that card. He played it and cut it again but with the upcomming of the HLCP I guess he wants you to think he doesnt play it just to have it for the right moment in the T8 Cheesy

6. Burning the opponent is in my eyes much more important than having the option to kill the random voice/finks/strangleroot from time to time.

7. I agree I would include them and wouldnt count them as lands but as spells at the same time I see the point for a stable manabase. But I would always choose the potential +ev from karakas/wasteland over the potential loss of mana stability.
« Last Edit: 18-11-2014, 04:33:57 PM by Tabris » Logged
Ball.Lightning
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« Reply #2 on: 18-11-2014, 05:20:17 PM »

I would like to point out, that there is more creatures, than the obvious three named here, that render Slagstorm useles: Academy rector, Vengevine, Gravecravler, Bloodghast, Bloodsoaked Champion, Geralf's Messenger - there are probably some more.

It also deny's random interaction like: Unearth, Eternal Witness, Scavenging Ooze. I would personaly play always Anger of the Gods instead of Slagstorm.

Situations where you want to burn both players 3 life is rarer than all the upsides i named. (I can think of one! Slagstorm can probably kill Jace 2.0 which is the only one good thig I can think off)
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tonytahiti
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« Reply #3 on: 18-11-2014, 06:26:43 PM »

1. There are no "mediocre" lands in this list, they all have their purpose and need to be loved equally. I believe it is correct since councils judgement gives you two answers (mystical) for nemesis and thrun (which can be a big problem for the deck as well) and for every other nonland permanent as well, finks and brimaz do exactly what the deck want (they attack well and they block well and have good synergy with slagstorm).

2. Imperial Recruiter is a trap and searching for combopiece is horrendous. 1. Opponent knows its coming and you kinda putting all eggs into one basket (you play one underpowered 3mana card, recruiter, to get another underpowered 3 mana card, pestermite, exarch, you are commited to the combo then)  2. You solely played a chumper turn 3. Its not a source of card advantage since the 1/1 will never carry its weight as a card (only when flickered by resto), the body is stoo small and he is on chumping duty immediately. I am not gonna pay 3 mana for a 1/1 that only has 12 targets or whatever, on the draw that play will put you too far behind against things like naya or ww or whatever

3. I think Oring is bad. You give reclamation sage and other 2-1 creatures  targets, you get blown out by abrupt decay etc, and you can never be sure you actually got rid of the thing. Plus sorcery speed removal for three is so unflexible that the deck can only handle one (councils judgement, obv 1000xbetter).

4. Chandra is clearly the best thing happened to magic in the last few years. I am not sure which alternatives you are talking about..elspeth? she is overrated and especially bad in this deck. Chandra is flexible, pressures walkers in two ways (deals damage and removes blockers) is a source of card advantage and has a ultimate that actually matters.

5. Mental Misstep is unplayable and a horrendous topdeck. Force of Will is a typical case of what we call "Djambalo Kumbe" in Tahiti, translates into "staple blindness". Its terrible on the play since you two for one yourself to counter a thoctar or whatever you cant otherwise deal with and then are so low on cards that you wanna cry and there is overall a too consistent powerlevel in cards that you actually wanna two for one yourself for one. Of course its great vs storm and eggs or whatever combo deck but its kind of bad vs other decks.
 
6. You cant just say that anger of the gods upsides outweighs slagstorms upsides, its a flawed approach. Slagstorm is hardly never lost, only when you are below 3 and opponent has less 3 toughness guys than you. Anger of the gods is sooo often lost and the deck does not want that obv. Slagstorm is bolt to the face vs control (your life total is a non issue vs control in the first 10 turns), it kills walkers and it most likely does exactly the same thing as anger in the other cases. I dont even think its close, i think slagstorm is so much better. Also you dont wanna play 2 of those effects.

7. Wasteland is another case of djambalo kumbe, people get blinded cause they think it must be good..cause it is..wasteland. I seriously think its one of the most overrated cards in the whole format. Even people in legacy are starting to cut wastelands now and wasteland is SO MUCH better in legacy than in HL. You have to think about what the card actually does for you and what it does to your opening hand. How good is the mantis rider in my hand when i have wasteland? How can i cast nemesis turn three and kiki turn 5 if one of my lands is wasteland? Should i just treat it as a spell? Yeah probably, but its a landdrop too and my guess is that in about 80% of the matchups (everything thats not heavy control) my mana is more valuable than my opponents (since i am defending and not the aggressor, my mana than carries more value), so i often dont even wanna waste when i draw it. And then it destroys opening hands and you need to mulligan. Wasteland will lose you more games than it will win you in 3c+ decks without elves. Of course its very good in 2c decks with acceleration but in decks like this wasteland is a huge trap imo. Karakas is fine in the deck but i wouldnt wanna play 2 White-Only Sources so you would need to cut the plains. Having the plains vs b2b or bloodmoon outweights having karakas vs silly things like yeva or bouncing your own venser by about 2,4%.
« Last Edit: 18-11-2014, 08:31:58 PM by tonytahiti » Logged

Winner - Pro HL Cup, Prague 2002
Winner - Highlander Regional Masters, Phuket 2006
Winner - Sunrise Trophy Run, Hawaii 2006
Winner - North Dakota HL Championships 2007
Winner - Tahiti "One And Only"-Cup #3, 2009
Winner - Gio di Gio Seria, Florenz, 2016
Winner - Jail or be Jailed, Berlin, 2017
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