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Author Topic: combo is dead - long live combo    (Read 7765 times)
MMD
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« on: 28-07-2014, 12:37:55 PM »

I am tiered of reading all these Midrange and Control decklists and would like to test a competitive combo deck. Does someone have a good deck list to test with in addition to the Finnish High Tide and Emrakul lists?

With the current rules I doubt Combo can be Tier1 any time soon, so I would like to see Imperial Seal unbanned. Is there any chance to get a explanation from the council why Imperial Seal was/is still banned?

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« Reply #1 on: 28-07-2014, 01:17:53 PM »

I don't have a specific list atm. I'm tinkering with combo from time to time but haven't taken it to a tournament yet (so no chance of posting it on mtgpulse).

In my mind there are several options out there besides the ones you mentioned, some of which I explored to a certain extent:

- Aluren/Recruiter/Spike Feeder/Archangel of Thune/Pattern of Rebirth/Protean Hulk/Kiki-Jiki-Combo ( Wink )
This sounds pretty weird and wild but there is deck hidden somewhere. Basically you run a toolboxy creature deck that happens to have some "I win"-combos built in and several "cross"-synergies (for example, Spike Feeder is a combo part of the Aluren-chain but also combos with Archangel. Or Imperial Recruiter fetches up Kiki, which copies Recruiter which tutors again for Deceiver Exarch ftw. But Recruiter also belongs in the Aluren combo. Academy Rector gets Aluren or Pattern etc...). When there's too much hate for your combos, you're still left with a creature deck full of useful value critters (that admittedly are underpowered) which might just get there.

- Hermit Druid
I'm talking about the full-fledged combo here, sporting an instant win after a Hermit activation (e. g. by Lord of Extinction, Flayer of the Hatebound, Mimeoplasm, or Lord, Trike, Plasm or Angel of Glory's Rise/Laboratory Maniac-Shenanigans...). There are some lists available on mtgpulse but they are rather outdated. Maybe there's some new tech. I haven't wrapped my mind around this deck for a while.

- Reanimator
It depends on your definition if this is combo or not. I will list it here anyway. Lately, some seriously good dudes were printed for this archetype (for example Ashen Rider and Sylvan Primordial). Most people seem to think the archetype has suffered a lot through the free mulligan, which is true. I'm pretty sure it is viable though.

- Storm
At the MKM-tournament in Berlin last year I played Carsten Kötter twice (in the swiss and t8) who piloted storm in a very confident and experienced manner. The deck seemed quite reliable and strong in spite of him having some questionable cards in his list (Eladamri's Vineyard for example). LED, Past in Flames, Yawgmoth's Will, red and black rituals, strong tutoring (Demonic, Lim-Dul's Vault, Mystical...) are all available in our format. I really think Storm is viable.

Surely, there are some other combo routes available.

@Imperial Seal: Might be worth discussing.
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Maqi
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« Reply #2 on: 28-07-2014, 01:30:25 PM »

Also, there are some sweet Doomsday piles out there:

1
Thought Scour
Worldgorger Dragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Animate Dead
[Random Card]

2
Thought Scour
Pandemonium
Saproling Burst
Replenish
[Random Card]

3
Breakthrough
Auriok Salvagers
LED
Pyrite Spellbomb
Reanimate

4
Thought Scour
Laboratory Maniac
Deep Analysis
Reanimate
[Random Card]

5
Brainstorm
Shelldock Isle
Emerald Charm
Lotus Petal
Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn

and certainly some more...
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Nastaboi
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« Reply #3 on: 28-07-2014, 01:45:22 PM »

Hukka, our reigning Finnish champion, has a really powerful list for a combo deck revolving around Yawgmoth's Will. Its main downside is insane amount of playskill it requires, and that nobody is willig to test against it. I don't have the exact list, but it's basicly just all rituals, all tutors, all cantrips, all duress/chant effects, lands and the broken stuff.

Öhman (Tiggupiru) has a really cool eggs combo deck. Maybe he could share his list now that our Nationals is over. That deck is definitely competitive and not that impossibly hard to pilote.

Imperial Seal seems to be equal to Workshop in terms of affordance. I find it hard to believe Seal would be banned at first place if it costed the same as miracle tutors. We could discuss unbanning it while waiting for printing of judge promo.
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0:13:51 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi plays Invincible Hymn from Hand
0:14:25 [Nastaboi] Nastaboi's life total is now 221 (+213)
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« Reply #4 on: 28-07-2014, 02:09:35 PM »

Öhman (Tiggupiru) has a really cool eggs combo deck. Maybe he could share his list now that our Nationals is over. That deck is definitely competitive and not that impossibly hard to pilote.

I disagree. It feels impossible to me Smiley

I do agree on the competitive part, though. Feels really powerful and surprisingly consistent.

But the list isn't quite there yet. I felt like I got into a good place prior to nationals, but I misread the meta and also the list wasn't entirely ready either. I can share what I have now, but there are cards I don't like at all and some cards that might be better off as something else. I also don't have the current list in digital form, so that'll have to wait until I get an inspiration to type it in during this heat wave.
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MMD
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« Reply #5 on: 28-07-2014, 02:46:03 PM »

Has somebody managed to built a Tier1 Tolarian Academy /Yawgmoth´s Will list? I have a rough sketch of an 4C TezzOath but it is too dependent on the few big spells which you need to find/resolve which can be very challenging against hard control/aggro builds.


Hukka, our reigning Finnish champion, has a really powerful list for a combo deck revolving around Yawgmoth's Will. Its main downside is insane amount of playskill it requires, and that nobody is willig to test against it. I don't have the exact list, but it's basicly just all rituals, all tutors, all cantrips, all duress/chant effects, lands and the broken stuff.

I expect that his deck will be similar to the OathStorm lists. For example: http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/15373#215460.
 
Imperial Seal seems to be equal to Workshop in terms of affordance. I find it hard to believe Seal would be banned at first place if it costed the same as miracle tutors. We could discuss unbanning it while waiting for printing of judge promo.

So how is Imperial Seal different to the other expensive unbanned cards then? Workshop, Tabernacle, Candelabra, Bazaar all have the same price tag and only find place in very specific deck types, so does the Seal. I doubt that Imperial Seal would go into any Non-Combo decks, so you could do Combo decks a favor to fight the Midrange/Control madness. So why do we have to wait for a Promo Seal when we can have it in October Wink

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« Reply #6 on: 28-07-2014, 03:49:50 PM »

I expect that his deck will be similar to the OathStorm lists. For example: http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/15373#215460.

Wow, this list is actually pretty close  Shocked  Why not give it a try? Just add Mana Confluence.

Quote
So how is Imperial Seal different to the other expensive unbanned cards then? Workshop, Tabernacle, Candelabra, Bazaar all have the same price tag and only find place in very specific deck types, so does the Seal. I doubt that Imperial Seal would go into any Non-Combo decks, so you could do Combo decks a favor to fight the Midrange/Control madness. So why do we have to wait for a Promo Seal when we can have it in October Wink

Not saying that I disagree with you. We'll take this into discussion with the council.
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« Reply #7 on: 28-07-2014, 07:58:13 PM »

I ve tried a creature based combo deck some weeks ago. I am pretty satisfied but I think there is a lot of potential for different cards.

Basically you can find every reasonable combo, Scapeshift, Rector, Twin, Archangel, Bombardment+Reveilark+Image/Karmic Guide etc.
You could add Aluren for sure. M15 is not implemented yet (Heliods Pilgrim would be a great addition)

At some point I realized that the deck needs a lot of practice (like Doomsday/Pattern/Hermit) so I ve decided to test it later but I would appreciate any feedback or even
playtesting with it.

Even without any experience I managed to get a lot of wins and I am sure if someone tweaks it even more It would be easily a T1 deck.

1 Academy Rector
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Eternal Witness
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Village Bell-Ringer
1 Restoration Angel
1 Splinter Twin
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Three Visits
1 Nature's Lore
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Pestermite
1 Martyr's Cause
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wall of Omens
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Spike Feeder
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Chord of Calling
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Pattern of Rebirth
1 Protean Hulk
1 Karmic Guide
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Reveillark
1 Animate Dead
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Viscera Seer
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Wall of Roots
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Plateau
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Temple of Abandon
1 City of Brass
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Spellskite
1 Unearth
1 Shriekmaw
1 Dismember
1 Gamble
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Scrubland
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Scapeshift
1 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Vesuva
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Phantasmal Image
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Tiggupiru
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« Reply #8 on: 30-07-2014, 02:54:14 PM »

Here we go. I am quite pleased with the deck. Fun to play and I feel that it is powerful enough to be a force. Ridiculously difficult to pilot though.

Dr. Eggman

// Lands
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Savannah
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Tundra
    1 Scrubland
    1 Bayou
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Arid Mesa
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Tree of Tales
    1 Island
    1 Seat of the Synod
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Windswept Heath
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Plains
    1 Ancient Den
    1 Vault of Whispers
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Ancient Tomb
    1 Tolaria West
    1 City of Traitors
    1 Darksteel Citadel
    1 Great Furnace
    1 Wooded Foothills
    1 Flagstones of Trokair
    1 Deserted Temple
    1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Crystal Vein
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Forbidden Orchard

// Some more mana
    1 Candelabra of Tawnos
    1 Jeweled Amulet
    1 Tooth of Ramos
    1 Mind Stone
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Mox Opal
    1 Lotus Bloom
    1 Lotus Petal

// Sunrises
    1 Second Sunrise
    1 Open the Vaults
    1 Faith's Reward

// Eggs
    1 Elsewhere Flask
    1 Prophetic Prism
    1 Kaleidostone
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Conjurer's Bauble
    1 Darkwater Egg
    1 Mossfire Egg
    1 Skycloud Egg
    1 Shadowblood Egg
    1 Sungrass Egg
    1 Chromatic Sphere
    1 Chromatic Star
    1 Scroll of Avacyn
    1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
    1 Necrogen Spellbomb
    1 AEther Spellbomb
    1 Phyrexian Furnace
    1 Ichor Wellspring
    1 Lifespark Spellbomb
    1 Scrabbling Claws

// Tutors
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Muddle the Mixture
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Wargate
    1 Fabricate
    1 Tezzeret the Seeker
    1 Expedition Map
    1 Reshape
    1 Transmute Artifact
    1 Artificer's Intuition
    1 Tainted Pact
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Oath of Druids

// Draw 7
    1 Time Spiral
    1 Timetwister
    1 Wheel of Fortune
    1 Memory Jar

// C-c-c-combo
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Thopter Foundry
    1 Sword of the Meek
    1 Auriok Salvagers
    1 Rings of Brighthearth
    1 Codex Shredder
    1 Zuran Orb
    1 Pyrite Spellbomb

// Random value stuff
    1 Voltaic Key
    1 Obelisk of Undoing
    1 Scroll Rack
    1 Thirst for Knowledge
    1 Mana Drain
    1 Defense Grid
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Thoughtcast
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« Reply #9 on: 01-08-2014, 11:49:45 AM »

Wow, both Tabris creature combo deck and the eggs deck look copmpletely insane and very hard to play. I'll ty to test them, if I have time.

Inspired by this threat I tested combo decks like dream halls (with omniscience and enter the infinite as new additions), TPS and Heartbeat of Spring (with green dictate), but unfortunately they all sucked. I mean, it was really bad. I don't know how the metagame looked the last time combo was good, but it seems, a lot has changed. Hardest obstacles to overcome for me while testing:

- no spoils mulligan. I thought it would matter, but it matters a lot more for combo decks than I thought
- better creatures. Combo decks without good defensive mechanisms are unplayable imho. Long gone are the times when people tried to kill with savannah lions and stuff. Now your opponent will slam 2 mana 3/3 and 3 mana 4/4 all day. Their clock is way faster. And it's not like they are just two or three of these creatures per deck. There are a lot of creatures out there with good stats for the same mana cost, meaning aggro strategies will almost always have a good start/curve (just count the number of 2 power one drops in white and red or black nowadays)
- And that's just the "vanilla" creatures. The new/newer hatebears are insane. Gaddock Teeg, Aven Mindcensor, Thalia, Scavenging Ooze,Eidolon of great revel, Spirit of the Labyrinth, and so on. And the old combo killers in form of winter orb or armageddon are of course still around
- Additionally there's some aggro decks like 4c Blood who have access to non creature hate like thoughtseize, liliana or hymn to tourach.
- And burn decks feel like a whole new level of bad. Their arsenal got better over time as well and combo can't defend well against a good mix of cheap (haste) creatures and "to the face" burnspells

In my games heartbeat provided the best results (although still bad), because you had some amount of defense (I played with wrath, wall of blossoms, wall of omens and timely reinforcements), but it felt like a watered down version of control. Between combo elements, defensive cards and ramp there was almost no space for counters or anti-control cards like abeyance, silence, etc. and most definitely no space at all for "fun" cards like time stretch, panoptic mirror, mindslaver, etc that I used to play when I had a heartbeat deck some years ago.

Fighting control also didn't feel good. Planeswalkers gave control a new angle from which they can win the game. 10 years ago control would maybe tap out on one turn for something like mophling (which needed additional mana invested every turn, or was just a little slow), giving you time to win or they would play draw-go, which you could beat by casting instant stuff (fact or fiction) and then using abeyance, etc. for one big combo turn.

Today control decks will play an early planeswalker against combo (insert any 1UU or 2UU jace here) an then beat you with the ard advantage generated by this planeswalker (for free every turn) or threaten a lethal ultimate. In addition to that, newer uw control decks can just combo you out! As soon as they have a decent amount of mana and something like sensei's diving top you risk getting mystical tutor-into-entreat-the-angel'd-eot when tapping out (maybe uw miracle control, maybe with helm and thopter foundry are the best combo decks today. As weird as that sounds). Furthermore Wizards may not be reprinting counterspell as a card but the counterspells they did print can totally ruin your day. Counterspell, Mana Drain, Force of will always be around to mess with your combo turn but the newer cheap counterspells in form of spell snare, spell pierce, mental misstep, remand are equally bad for you.
And then there is cryptic command or venser/karakas and of course snapcastermage and vendillion clique (beats and disruption !!)

Conclusion: Not enough love for spell based combo in the form of potent cards from Wizards in the last years and too many tools for every other deck. Either combo is not viable at the moment or it has to be some kind of creature based control like tabris' build or the UR decks which feature the pestermite/kiki-jiki combo (my money is still on uw miracles(helm combo as the best combo deck).

I haven't tested the finnish high tide list yet, which I will do, but I doubt that the mentioned hate cards and problems don't hit it as hard as the other combo decks (right now I think it's success is due to the lack of 4c blood and such in the meta but I hope I'm proven wrong).

I think unbanning imprial seal could be a step in the right direction (dream halls felt like it could use more tutors). But I have no idea what else could help.
« Last Edit: 01-08-2014, 11:54:03 AM by TobiR » Logged
ChristophO
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« Reply #10 on: 01-08-2014, 12:32:29 PM »

I strongly believe that single-minded combo decks are really tough to both build and pilot in all formats but especially so in Highlander.
This is because key cards can of course only be played once (but can be tutored) which makes the more powerful draws a lot rarer. This
is a problem because powerful draws are usuallly fast and needed to beat aggro decks.

Because of this I strongly believe that hybrid decks are a powerful option for Highlander decks. Examples for this would be Pattern Rector
and Scapeshift builds. Both decks can play a typical creature based game and come out on top but also threaten a special combo that
forces opponents to play a lot different if the threat would not be exisiting. Those kind of decks require quite a bit more testing
so that the pilot knows when to switch plans mid-game and which plan is stronger depending on the MU as well which heavily influences
how tutors are used, and ressources are spend as well as the important mulligan decisions after G1 (assuming knot knowing opponents deck G1).
For straight combo decks there is Oath "storm" and Reanimator as straight combo decks without a fair plan that I have witnessed to perfom well.
Against High Tide I have played a couple of time in online Leagues and the deck crushes control decks that can not deploy threats  at instant speed
(and most of the time controlish decks can not do this).

If someone wants to test/build/update Pattern Rector:
I advise including the Dark Depths/Thespian Stage Combo, because the cards that tutor it are also powerful for other axis of that deck
(Cradle, Phyrexian Tower as well as goodstuff lands like Maze, Township, Wasteland, or a Manland). The deck is tough to pilot because of the
many tutoring options that will diverge wildly depending on what your game plan is but because of this reason is also very fun to play. Also,
people often disrespect or forget about Living Death which is a card that can win a LOT of games.

TobiR:
I would like to point out that a single 2/1 for 1 cmc is as efficent as a 4/4 for 3 mana and almost as efficient as a 3/3 for two mana. Because
of mana curve reasons the most dreaded start will always be if the first turn will be spent on casting a maan elf or a 2 power guy of some sort.
The cheaper your curve the eaiser it will be to spend all avaiable mana on every turn during the first 4 to 5 turns. Having two 2/1 for 1 mana
and 2 3/3 for 2 mana is much faster than 2 3/3s and 2 /4/4s. it is also a little bit faster than mana elf + 1 4/4 + 2 3/3. Do not undererstimate
one drops! There is also still a lack of quality one drops for most aggro decks. I believe there is no two color combination yet that can sport
16 playable 2 power one drops and no three color combination that can play 25 2 power one drops. But for a real aggro deck one would like to play
25 - 30% of the deck as a one drop (typically  13 to 14 are used in 60 card decks to almost guarantee the T1 one drop because it is that important)


Calculations:
2/1: 0 + 4* 2 = 8 dmg in 5 turns
3/3: 2 * 0 + 3* 3 = 9 dmg in 5 turns
4/4: 3 * 0 + 2 * 4 = 8 dmg in 5 turns 
 
2 * 2/1 + 2 * 3/3:
T1: 2/1
T2: 3/3
T3: 2/1 + 3/3
= 0 + 2 + 5 + 10 + 10 = 27 dmg

2 * 3/3 + 2 * 4/4:
T1 -
T2 3/3
T3 4/4
T4 4/4
T5 3/3
= 0 + 0 + 3 + 7 + 11 = 21 dmg

1/1 elf + 2* 3/3 + 4/4
T1 elf
T2 4/4
T3 2* 3/3
= 0 + 0 + 4 + 11 + 11 = 26 dmg



« Last Edit: 01-08-2014, 01:50:06 PM by ChristophO » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: 04-08-2014, 06:26:41 PM »

http://mtgpulse.com/event/17408#247210

Try this if you want to play a fun deck.
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« Reply #12 on: 09-08-2014, 03:57:28 PM »

I 4-0'd with that Eggs-deck in a 10 player tournament. Slight changes to the above list: -Oath -FOrchard -Mana Drain +Trinket Mage +Windfall +Capsize

Matchups were:

UBg-control feat. DarkDepths combo - First game I tutor for Thopther Foundry when I have Sword of the Meek in hand. I was on the play so Foundry stuck. He counters my Sword on the following turn. I stalled on lands, but eventually one of my artifacts resolved so that I was able to get the combo going. In game two he found enough counters and thoughtseize to do me in. Game three I had to win on my last extra turn, which I was able to do thanks to Defense Grid.

Uw-Control feat. RiP + Helm - I almost beat Rest in Peace in game one, but he topdecks untapped land to go with his Helm of awakening for the win. I probably would have gone off next turn, but I am unsure. Game two I just had embarrassment of riches and I get infinite mana to finish him off when he has nothing to my grip full of relevant cards. Naturally drawn Academy just is the nuts. Game three he finds Rest in Peace and we end up in a spot where I have the infinite mana again, but have all my relevant kill spells exiled. I drop all my artifacts in the table along with Thopter Foundry and a Tezzeret I +1'ed to be able to go ultimate. He casts Personal Tutor into Ponder just to try to mise a win with Helm. I Muddle the Mixture the Ponder and he concedes. He also has a Cryptic Command to tap me out the next turn, to buy a draw step, but I would have been able to Lifespark Spellbomb two of his untapped lands into creatures (with Rings of Brighthearth) and then bounce them with my AEther spellbomb (#SickTricks).

UWR-Control (notice a trend?) - In game one he Dack Faydens me a bunch, but he couldn't find any pressure so even when he had counters and disruption to everything I do, I still have time. When he taps out, I Time Spiral, into Windfall into Wheel of Fortune (without Academy that got Wastelanded even), which gave me more that enough tools to seal the deal with Salvager + LED. Game two, He Dack Faydens my artifact land and has a critical Force of Will for my Windfall (which I enabled by Enlightened Tutoring for a Mox Diamond leaving me with no cards in hand), so I just lose. Game three he has lots of counters to deal with my key spells including last card of my hand which was Timetwister. I crack some eggs and find Open the Vaults that refills me enough to finally go off.

Burn - First game I have turn four Salvagers + LED with Defense Grid backup, but he plays Eidolon of Great Revels which I need to answer by tutoring a pyrite spellbomb. He finds Blood Moon to lock me out of the white which would have kickstarted the loop. Game two he comes out fast with Stromkirk Noble and Stormblood Berserker, but I have turn four Salvagers with LED again, which I need to execute against his three untapped lands, because I just get run over if I try anything cute. It works, since he is one damage short. Game three we both mulliganed to six. I had reasonable hands with the deck, but against fast aggro you need to have a big spell, tutor or at least one combo piece or you just need to get incredibly lucky. I settle with a hand that has some eggs and access to Academy, because mull to five is just not the greatest. He doesn't have a great hand and has no cumulative source of damage. I get my Academy and cantrip the eggs to find Tezzeret that fetches Thopter Foundry. He can kill the Tezzeret, but I have too many artifacts in play (including one Sunbeam Spellbomb) for he to burn me out from 17 even when I don't have Sword of the Meek so he scoops.

My tournament results with the deck so far: 5-0, 4-2, 0-2, 4-0

My losses have been from poor deckbuilding (too few lands, didn't adjust correctly to the new mulligan) and loose keeps against aggro. I like my position against control, I feel like I am slight favorite to aggro provided that I mulligan correctly. I'd say that rumors of combo's demise are greatly exaggerated.
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« Reply #13 on: 09-08-2014, 10:02:55 PM »

I would love to see that deck in action
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MMD
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« Reply #14 on: 10-08-2014, 08:29:52 AM »

I will test either the Storm or the egg list asap to find out if a non creature based fast combo is possible. Here is another list from my side.

I took a quite uncommon approach on Scapeshift (4CC Rampspells, Oath, Depth/Stage/Loam, "bad" blue 1CC spells, low fattie amount...) with a focus on ASAP Scapeshift.

- The list was built for a midrange&UWx Control meta (minor creature defense package) and has to be adjusted for fast aggro and/or aggrocontrol meta
- very reliable T5 kill with backup
- based on an older decklist with just Mystical thrown in
- landbase not sufficently tested to the "new mulligan"
- Oath, Depth/Stage and the extensive library manipulation as new test set up
- bad Oath creatures are certainly non-optimal but necessary IMO for the Scapeshift plan

explanation for the uncommon choices:

4CC "acceleration" - allows a much more reliable T4-5 kill
Oath package - simply wanted to test one of the best cards allowed
Depth/Stage/Loam - wanted to have a secondary win option (can also be scapeshifted which could be useful against RDW for example)
low fat amount - made the experience that other fatties (Titans, Planeswalkers) were not able to ensure a win just as Primeval Titan does
bad blue CC1 spells - wanted more T1 action, more knowledge against Control, increased possibility to find Scapeshift/Titan


4C Oathshift

1   Search for Tomorrow

1   Brainstorm
1   Duress
1   Gitaxian Probe
1   Inquisition of Kozilek
1   Mystical Tutor
1   Overmaster
1   Peek
1   Personal Tutor
1   Ponder
1   Preordain
1   Sensei`s Divining Top
1   Serum Visions
1   Sleight of Hand
1   Sorcerous Sight
1   Swan Song
1   Thoughtseize
1   Worldly Tutor

1   Edge of Autumn
1   Explore
1   Farseek
1   Into the North
1   Nature`s Lore
1   Rampant Growth
1   Restore
1   Sakura Tribe Elder
1   Three Visits

1   Abrupt Decay
1   Demonic Tutor
1   Fire/Ice
1   Impulse
1   Life from the Loam
1   Merchant Scroll
1   Oath of Druids
1   See Beyond
1   Sylvan Library

1   Cultivate
1   Green Sun´s Zenith
1   Kodama`s Reach

1   Beast Within
1   Bonfire of the Damned
1   Clutch of the Undercity
1   Dimir House Guard
1   Eternal Witness
1   Grim Tutor
1   Intuition
1   Maelstrom Pulse
1   Snapcaster Mage
1   Toxic Deluge

1   Explosive Vegetation
1   Hunting Wilds
1   Ranger´s Path
1   Skyshroud Claim

1   Beseech the Queen
1   Mystical Teachings
1   Scapeshift
1   Summoner´s Pact

1   Pact of Negation
1   Pelakka Wurm
1   Primal Command
1   Primeval Titan
1   Rune-Scarred Demon

1   Arid Mesa
1   Badlands
1   Bayou
1   Blood Crypt
1   Bloodstained Mire
1   Breeding Pool
1   Dark Depths
1   Flooded Strand
1   Marsh Flats
1   Misty Rainforest
1   Overgrown Tomb
1   Polluted Delta
1   Scalding Tarn
3   Snow Covered Forest
2   Snow Covered Island
4   Snow Covered Mountain
2   Snow Covered Swamp
1   Steam Vents
1   Stomping Ground
1   Taiga
1   Thespian´s Stage
1   Tolaria West
1   Tranquil Thicket
1   Tropical Island
1   Underground Sea
1   Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1   Verdant Catacombs
1   Volcanic Island
1   Watery Grave
1   Windswept Heath
1   Wooded Foothills



« Last Edit: 10-08-2014, 10:23:26 AM by MMD » Logged

Feel free to browse through my MKM account:

http://www.magickartenmarkt.de/index.php?mainPage=showSellerChart&idInfoUser=13199

I also have a huge amount of chinese and japanese foil HL staples not listed yet,  which I would like to downgrade to english foil. Just let me know!
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